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My Echo, My Shadow And Me

AutodesSchreckens wrote:

While Monk was a fantastic piano player and used this technique for years, it seems like a interesting coincidence that Dylan seems to apply it only now, years after his guitar skills started to deteriorate.

That's like saying he sings the way he does now by choice (and could sing another way), and not just because his voice is gone.

A) Dylan's electric guitar playing has always had elements of the Monk style of playing. I am not saying that he copies Monk. All I am saying is that both Monk and Dylan arrived at the same conclusions.

B) He DOES sing the way he sings ON PURPOSE. He could easily stay in the lower register (like Leonard Cohen) and sing smoothly. Instead he stresses the rough edges. He has always used his voice to antagonize. Why should it be any different now? I think Dylan himself prefers his current voice to his old voice(es), because it enables him to do things that he could not do as a young man. He now has the voice he always wanted to have. Compare to Charley Patton, Howlin' Wolf (a Howlin' Wolf tape was played before the 2010 shows) and Blind Willie Johnson.

serafina magdalena · **Joined:** Thu May 22nd, 2008, 04:10 GMT **Posts:** 693

dissonance can be exciting

sometimes...not all the time

and that's not an observation of any kind relating to either artist, their particular styles, playing, etc.

thinman2 · **Joined:** Thu October 15th, 2009, 15:01 GMT **Posts:** 57

Tuib levee row 61 coat thunder. Walk out started during desolation row... MrJ

AvengingAngel · **Joined:** Mon May 23rd, 2011, 21:59 GMT **Posts:** 63

What song is Bobby singing? is he smiling and dancing a lot tonight? i'd like to see a video of this show.

Blind Boy Zimmerman · **Joined:** Mon April 2nd, 2007, 07:31 GMT **Posts:** 333

Well Monk does this playin within a jazz setting where this kind of "abstract playing" can be expected.

Differences are that Dylan does this with very limited technical skills (which I, being a blues musican, don't mind at all) I think the thing that confuses a lot of people - and especially "tourists" and people who claim "Bob cant play or Bob can't sing" is that Dylan does it within a contemporary rock/folk setting - which is rarely seen ans which most people challenging/find hard to figure out. I see this "abstract" approach as another part of Bob being a musical genius.

SirDogg

So it's:

1 Leopard-Skin Bill-Box Hat (Mark on guitar)
2 It's All Over Now, Baby Blue (Mark on guitar)
3 Things Have Changed (Mark on guitar)
4 Mississippi (Mark on guitar)
5 Honest With Me (new arrangement)
6 Tangled Up In Blue
7 The Levee's Gonna Break
8 Desolation Row
9 Highway 61 Revisited
10 Man In The Long Black Coat
11 Thunder On The Mountain

AutodesSchreckens

thinman2 wrote:

Tuib levee row 61 coat thunder. Walk out started during desolation row... MrJ

thanks for the update. So same old songs in a slightly odd order (as in three #4 songs spread out over the entire set)

My Echo, My Shadow And Me

thinman2 wrote:

Tuib levee row 61 coat thunder. Walk out started during desolation row... MrJ

Wow, Man In The Long Black Coat! I thought he'd do Forgetful Heart.

pottel

dylan's friend wrote:

I don't understand all this arguing all the time. Tonight it's really no fun following this topic. I had hoped for infos about the concert, and all I get are those stupid little arguments... :shock:

all part of the show i guess...

dylan's friend · **Joined:** Sat October 29th, 2011, 19:14 GMT **Posts:** 12

well pottel I don't care much for that.

wurlitzer · **Joined:** Mon March 23rd, 2009, 16:08 GMT **Posts:** 19

monk's dissonances come from the notes he chooses when voicing chords, while dylan is playing single notes, which are cannot be, in themselves dissonant. the dissonance comes from his not playing the correct notes in the scale of the key that the song is in. such atonal soloing is simply sloppy playing, not the result of imaginative chordal voicings. if dylan is at all like monk, it is in the way he jabs at the keyboard and sometimes wanders around the stage without purpose.

Tragos114

SirDogg wrote:

So it's:

1 Leopard-Skin Bill-Box Hat (Mark on guitar)
2 It's All Over Now, Baby Blue (Mark on guitar)
3 Things Have Changed (Mark on guitar)
4 Mississippi (Mark on guitar)
5 Honest With Me (new arrangement)
6 Tangled Up In Blue
7 The Levee's Gonna Break
8 Desolation Row
9 Highway 61 Revisited
10 Man In The Long Black Coat
11 Thunder On The Mountain

I like it . A lot. I hope Bob and the band are in a good mood tonight

thinman2 · **Joined:** Thu October 15th, 2009, 15:01 GMT **Posts:** 57

Watchtower Lars (sorry for having arguments in this thread. I did not bring them up, good night alrik). End of show.

My Echo, My Shadow And Me

wurlitzer wrote:

monk's dissonances come from the notes he chooses when voicing chords, while dylan is playing single notes, which are cannot be, in themselves dissonant. the dissonance comes from his not playing the correct notes in the scale of the key that the song is in. such atonal soloing is simply sloppy playing, not the result of imaginative chordal voicings. if dylan is at all like monk, it is in the way he jabs at the keyboard and sometimes wanders around the stage without purpose.

Monk plays single notes, too. His "dissonance" comes from playing "against" his band, like Dylan. And from playing "against" the implied – but not necessarily played – chord sequences. By the way Dylan does NOT use that approach when playing organ, he only uses that style on guitar (and he also used it when he played his keyboard in the piano mode from 2002–2005). And this is not off topic, because it's about what is happening on stage right now.

dylan's friend · **Joined:** Sat October 29th, 2011, 19:14 GMT **Posts:** 12

thanks a lot thinman!!!
you're not responsible what other people write here!!

Tragos114

Thanks a lot thinman2...

My Echo, My Shadow And Me

Thanks a lot for reporting! It really is appreciated!

wedding

Thank you thinman2, good job

Used_Spoon

My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:

AutodesSchreckens wrote:

While Monk was a fantastic piano player and used this technique for years, it seems like a interesting coincidence that Dylan seems to apply it only now, years after his guitar skills started to deteriorate.

That's like saying he sings the way he does now by choice (and could sing another way), and not just because his voice is gone.

A) Dylan's electric guitar playing has always had elements of the Monk style of playing. I am not saying that he copies Monk. All I am saying is that both Monk and Dylan arrived at the same conclusions.

B) He DOES sing the way he sings ON PURPOSE. He could easily stay in the lower register (like Leonard Cohen) and sing smoothly. Instead he stresses the rough edges. He has always used his voice to antagonize. Why should it be any different now? I think Dylan himself prefers his current voice to his old voice(es), because it enables him to do things that he could not do as a young man. He now has the voice he always wanted to have. Compare to Charley Patton, Howlin' Wolf (a Howlin' Wolf tape was played before the 2010 shows) and Blind Willie Johnson.

A) It's true that since early 90's he plays like that in concert, even on the MTV Unplugged. I must admit, I kind of like this, maybe because I'm playing a little like that. We can theorize that, saying that it's inheritaded from Gil Evans or Miles, or Monk work. But I think it's simply because it's what he can do, and he likes doing it. That works for the guitar (only 1 song in the current setlist), but the keyboard, it's not free jazz or nothing, it's just a big joke.

B) Again I agree that his singing is on purpose, but he 's far from mastering this and it clearly doesn't work on some songs...

smoke

Thanks for the setlist.

Ps: Dylan's my favorite musician, and he STILL has it in spades, but comparing his guitar playing to Thelonious Monk is ridiculous. Thanks.

Infidel Researcher

Thank you very much!
I hope they were (and they are going to be) in a good mood!!!

wurlitzer · **Joined:** Mon March 23rd, 2009, 16:08 GMT **Posts:** 19

My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:

wurlitzer wrote:

monk's dissonances come from the notes he chooses when voicing chords, while dylan is playing single notes, which are cannot be, in themselves dissonant. the dissonance comes from his not playing the correct notes in the scale of the key that the song is in. such atonal soloing is simply sloppy playing, not the result of imaginative chordal voicings. if dylan is at all like monk, it is in the way he jabs at the keyboard and sometimes wanders around the stage without purpose.

Monk plays single notes, too. His "dissonance" comes from playing "against" his band, like Dylan. And from playing "against" the implied – but not necessarily played – chord sequences. By the way Dylan does NOT use that approach when playing organ, he only uses that style on guitar (and he also used it when he played his keyboard in the piano mode from 2002–2005). And this is not off topic, because it's about what is happening on stage right now.

My Echo, My Shadow And Me

smoke wrote:

Thanks for the setlist.

Ps: Dylan's my favorite musician, and he STILL has it in spades, but comparing his guitar playing to Thelonious Monk is ridiculous. Thanks.

Please read this: http://www.howardm.net/tsmonk/adams.php The ideas behind Dylan's approach and Monk's approach are the same.

wedding

My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:

Monk plays single notes, too. His "dissonance" comes from playing "against" his band, like Dylan. And from playing "against" the implied – but not necessarily played – chord sequences. By the way Dylan does NOT use that approach when playing organ, he only uses that style on guitar (and he also used it when he played his keyboard in the piano mode from 2002–2005). And this is not off topic, because it's about what is happening on stage right now.

Thank you so much for the links Echo. I will watch and read them tomorrow with a fresh head. After my latest Bob concert I am sure you are right (despite some false notes perhaps). When you say he doesn't use it on the organ, you mean the mouth organ right? Because I found his keyboard organ playing wondrously jazzy and abstract. I hated it before.

Good night everybody

My Echo, My Shadow And Me

wedding wrote:

Thank you so much for the links Echo. I will watch and read them tomorrow with a fresh head. After my latest Bob concert I am sure you are right (despite some false notes perhaps). When you say he doesn't use it on the organ, you mean the mouth organ right? Because I found his keyboard organ playing wondrously jazzy and abstract. I hated it before.

Good night everybody

No, I am talking about the keyboard/organ. Dylan does some wild things on the organ, but he does not use the "Monk approach" there, because the organ lacks the percussive quality of a piano or guitar. Check out the article I linked to and it will all make sense.

Expecting Rain

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