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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 12:13 GMT 
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Lily Rose wrote:
As to the quote with Dylan.... I am almost sure it was in an interview.... the interviewer asked if he stole a little for his songs.... and his answer was ... you have to be good to steal a little, you have to be really good to steal a lot............ :wink:



Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king

'Sweetheart Like You'

I have loved reading this thread, particularly the generous and witty Okinawa Soba's contributions, and the wonderful links to material on Japan. Thanks everybody, I have had a great Monday morning in your company. As for ole Bob, it seems that we've got your number. Did you think it would take so long? I still love the first Drawn Blank series anyway and would like a copy of 'Amagansett' if anyone wants to give me one as a present. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 12:35 GMT 
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Milkcow wrote:
For GAD sakes, picasso's works don't look like the actual photos....it's an interpretation...


The paintings that he did base on photographs look very much like the photographs.

Furthermore his cubist interpretation of faces in paintings like the "Demoiselles d'Avignon" (1907) comes directly from old tribal art.

He very much followed the strategy outlined by Jim jarmusch below:

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery – celebrate it if you feel like it."

- Jim Jarmusch


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 12:56 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Milkcow wrote:
For GAD sakes, picasso's works don't look like the actual photos....it's an interpretation...


The paintings that he did base on photographs look very much like the photographs.

Furthermore his cubist interpretation of faces in paintings like the "Demoiselles d'Avignon" (1907) comes directly from old tribal art.

He very much followed the strategy outlined by Jim jarmusch below:

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery – celebrate it if you feel like it."

- Jim Jarmusch

Tribal art style is fine... it is not a direct copy.
and http://www.amazon.com/Picasso-Photograp ... 2080136496
there is still waaaay more interpretation from the photos I just saw on there than a direct copy.
I am not familiar with that complete collection though


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 12:56 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Oh, and in addition to my question above, is the Life magazine cover thing in the catalogue??


Hmmm... Milkcow later notes that the repurposed Life Vietnam cover is not in the catalog. A question for those who have seen the actual exhibition in the gallery. Is the Life painting part of the exhibit?


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 12:57 GMT 
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Leocadia wrote:
I love Bob. I'm devoted to him and beholding to him for the joy his music has brought me all these many years. I will continue to feel that way about him till the day I die. But ........ the only reason these paintings are hanging in a New York gallery and getting all of this attention is because Bob's signature is on them.


If the same paintings did not bear Dylan's signature but the signature of a famous contempory painter like Luc Tuymans they would not hang in a small gallery but the Metropolitan Museum and nobody would talk about the source photos.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 13:04 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Leocadia wrote:
I love Bob. I'm devoted to him and beholding to him for the joy his music has brought me all these many years. I will continue to feel that way about him till the day I die. But ........ the only reason these paintings are hanging in a New York gallery and getting all of this attention is because Bob's signature is on them.


If the same paintings did not bear Dylan's signature but the signature of a famous contempory painter like Luc Tuymans they would not hang in a small gallery but the Metropolitan Museum and nobody would talk about the source photos.



I would if I knew! Don't generalize your thoughts to everyone. Usually in the Met there is a plaque explaining about the painting... and it mentions stuff like sources and the whereabouts of inspiration... or it could be told in those little phone like electronic devices you can rent in some museums? I never rent those so it's a guess


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 13:08 GMT 
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Fred@Dreamtime wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
Oh, and in addition to my question above, is the Life magazine cover thing in the catalogue??


Hmmm... Milkcow later notes that the repurposed Life Vietnam cover is not in the catalog. A question for those who have seen the actual exhibition in the gallery. Is the Life painting part of the exhibit?


I noticed that contrary to somebody's claim in this thread, the Life image is still on the Gagosian website.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 13:29 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Milkcow wrote:
For GAD sakes, picasso's works don't look like the actual photos....it's an interpretation...


The paintings that he did base on photographs look very much like the photographs.

Furthermore his cubist interpretation of faces in paintings like the "Demoiselles d'Avignon" (1907) comes directly from old tribal art.

He very much followed the strategy outlined by Jim jarmusch below:

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery – celebrate it if you feel like it."

- Jim Jarmusch



good post, there are the photos and then the paintings. maybe im blind but they dont look alike to me either. same with rollin and tumblin, bob didnt give credit to Muddy, but nobody thinks twice about the fact that Muddy never gave credit from where he got it, because he certainly didnt make it up. its a blogosphere controversy.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 13:36 GMT 

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Hi Doug, was replying to your question about the Life magazine image. It's not in the catalogue, and it's not part of the exhibition: not hanging on the walls, not on display. Just clearing that up!


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 14:00 GMT 
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goombay wrote:


good post, there are the photos and then the paintings. maybe im blind but they dont look alike to me either. same with rollin and tumblin, bob didnt give credit to Muddy, but nobody thinks twice about the fact that Muddy never gave credit from where he got it, because he certainly didnt make it up. its a blogosphere controversy.


Mr. D. seems to give credit only when absolutely, positively forced to do so, and even then he tends to be either mysterious or minimalistic about it. Willie Dixon is (quite rightly) credited as co-writer on "My Wife's Home Town," and while "Beyond the Horizon" is credited as solely a Dylan composition on the album, if you dig down a bit on the Webbernets, you'll discover that as far as royalties go, the song is credited to Dylan, Jimmy Kennedy and Hugh Williams. Kennedy and Williams being the writers of the original composition, "Red Sails in the Sunset."


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 14:04 GMT 
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Fred@Dreamtime wrote:
as far as royalties go, the song is credited to Dylan, Jimmy Kennedy and Hugh Williams. Kennedy and Williams being the writers of the original composition, "Red Sails in the Sunset."


:!:


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 14:13 GMT 
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EyeforArt wrote:
Hi Doug, was replying to your question about the Life magazine image. It's not in the catalogue, and it's not part of the exhibition: not hanging on the walls, not on display. Just clearing that up!


Not sure who "Doug" is, but thank you. :lol:

This, as Mr. Holmes would say, is like the curious incident of the dog barking in the night. The image is placed on the Gagosian site as part of the "artist's works," and while they never say that it's part of the Asia series, it's certainly implied, given it's subject matter. A media relations person states to AndoDoug that it is part of the exhibition, yet it does not appear in either the catalog or on the gallery walls. As Johanna pointed out in several posts, it seemingly has no artistic relation to the other pieces, outside of the Asiatic theme.

So, what does that mean? Damned if I know. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 14:46 GMT 
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Cover Live magazine isn't a painting of Bob It's made by Larry Burrows in and is Published for the first time on Live Magazine in 1964.

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0302/lb_index.html
(middle row, sixth picture)

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5590 ... 02jets.jpg
original print

Has anyone noticed how beautiful his paintings are I think he did a nice job and I don't care that it was painted from a photograph it doesn't change a thing that I like his art work.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 15:36 GMT 

Joined: Mon November 27th, 2006, 02:38 GMT
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Milkcow wrote:
For GAD sakes, picasso's works don't look like the actual photos....it's an interpretation...


The paintings that he did base on photographs look very much like the photographs.

Furthermore his cubist interpretation of faces in paintings like the "Demoiselles d'Avignon" (1907) comes directly from old tribal art.

He very much followed the strategy outlined by Jim jarmusch below:

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery – celebrate it if you feel like it."

- Jim Jarmusch



LOVE that quote.
I have no problem with any of Bob's Love and Theft.- I like that it is being found, though the derision and contempt being shown seems uncalled for- (not here)
It doesn't seem to bother those he is "stealing" from.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 15:37 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
The paintings that he did base on photographs look very much like the photographs.

Furthermore his cubist interpretation of faces in paintings like the "Demoiselles d'Avignon" (1907) comes directly from old tribal art.

He very much followed the strategy outlined by Jim jarmusch below:

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery – celebrate it if you feel like it."

- Jim Jarmusch



good post, there are the photos and then the paintings. maybe im blind but they dont look alike to me either. same with rollin and tumblin, bob didnt give credit to Muddy, but nobody thinks twice about the fact that Muddy never gave credit from where he got it, because he certainly didnt make it up. its a blogosphere controversy.



That one really aggravates me when people boohoo Bob on that...Muddy definitely stole it from someone else...soooo....I always bring up Muddy snagged it too.
Blue I love the paintings too and I can't wait to see them. I just think he was really sneaky, the way it was marketed was sneaky, and his interview is really just bullcrap when he's asked why he painted stuff certain ways with certain details, angles, and lighting... he copied everything exactly from the paintings right to the FAKE BORDER!!! He agrees with the interviewer that he was going for a certain effect when he was just copying everything. That's the problem I have with this whole thing. The paintings are awesome...the back story of them is just BULL. I can't type bad words since I am at work... hahaha (on lunch)

to Oh Mercy... Well we haven't heard from Barry Gliden on his copyrighted image that was snagged and uncredited...perhaps he doesn't know as of yet. I hope it stays that way!


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 15:39 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
I'll take that as an ironic comment, TMM?

yeah :)


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 15:40 GMT 
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There are several photos in there that are copyrighted, and several that are not.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:02 GMT 
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Blue Midnight wrote:
Has anyone noticed how beautiful his paintings are I think he did a nice job and I don't care that it was painted from a photograph it doesn't change a thing that I like his art work.


I agree, Blue - I just wonder what posters will say he's stealing from when he unveils his first metal sculptures - probably accuse him of "copying" nature? Bob has always put his own unique spin to everything he touches (or acquires) - be it music, writing, and/or art - and he definitely follows his teacher's advice:
"My drawing instructor in high school lectured and demonstrated continuously to "draw only what you can see" so that if you were at a loss for words, something could be explained and even more importantly, not misunderstood. Rather than fantasize, be real and draw it only it if is in front of you and if it's not there, put it there and by making the lines connect, we can vaguely get at something other than the world we know."
I for one would love to see the exhibit - even Soba says that she likes some of his paintings more than the photos -
doomed


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:04 GMT 

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hmmmm- I guess I don't understand the "controversy." These paintings are not done from an original copyrighted photograph from a current/living artist. My understanding is that they are historical photo's. Why would/should he give attribution? They inspired him, he painted them. The photos are mainly black and white I think. I haven't seen them all. He has interpreted what he saw.
The gallery states that they were painted on his Asia tour- (inspired by what he saw?) Though somewhat misleading it doesn't seem to be controversial. He can be inspired without having witnessed the actual event he is portraying.

We know that Bob just blows through venue after venue when he is touring. It seems obvious he wouldn't be attending weddings or visiting an opium den... (but who knows!) Yet he can still be inspired by his surroundings, the history of the area he travels through. We know that he is sensitive to place, is a visual person, has an insatiable curiosity, has a restless nature and is very well read- it would seem logical that when he is somewhere new he reads about it, gives attention to the bits that interest him and synthesizes. I think that is what he has done his whole life- of course that is just my projection as is everything I think I know about Mr. Bob. :wink:

Maybe I would be labeled an apologist by some. I just love that man for so many reasons.

Something funny (at least to me) I was engrossed in this thread when I got a delivery from the drugstore. When I signed for it I wrote "Dylan" without even thinking. My first name is Diana- Iwrote the D and then without a thought finished with "ylan." How embarrassing. :oops:
Sheesh.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:10 GMT 
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Copyrighted contemporary photo, used for "Cockfight" painting.
http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3= ... &CT=Search

As for signing "Dylan", great Freudian slip! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:44 GMT 
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I have my doubts about the authenticity of the interview … I haven’t read the howl interview is it published somewhere .


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:47 GMT 

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Lily Rose wrote:
But at least it has lead us to Okinawa Soba's flicker thread, which just has a whole lot of good pictures on it......... think I will go and steal some for my screen saver....



Please do ! Glad you like the pics ! (You and Dylan have good taste) :)


--- Okinawa Soba


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:47 GMT 
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Blue Midnight wrote:
I have my doubts about the authenticity of the interview … I haven’t read the howl interview is it published somewhere .


It's in the exhibition catalogue, so there is no way it is fake.


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:58 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Copyrighted contemporary photo, used for "Cockfight" painting.
http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3= ... &CT=Search

As for signing "Dylan", great Freudian slip! :lol:



im sure-tho cant say im an expert-that the copyright in question extends to the use of the photgraph. bobs paintings, in any event, are not identical to the photos.
pretty soon they are going to accuse him of looking at something someone else looked at first. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon September 26th, 2011, 17:00 GMT 
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doomedtoloveyou wrote:
Blue Midnight wrote:
Has anyone noticed how beautiful his paintings are I think he did a nice job and I don't care that it was painted from a photograph it doesn't change a thing that I like his art work.


I agree, Blue - I just wonder what posters will say he's stealing from when he unveils his first metal sculptures - probably accuse him of "copying" nature? Bob has always put his own unique spin to everything he touches (or acquires) - be it music, writing, and/or art - and he definitely follows his teacher's advice:
"My drawing instructor in high school lectured and demonstrated continuously to "draw only what you can see" so that if you were at a loss for words, something could be explained and even more importantly, not misunderstood. Rather than fantasize, be real and draw it only it if is in front of you and if it's not there, put it there and by making the lines connect, we can vaguely get at something other than the world we know."
I for one would love to see the exhibit - even Soba says that she likes some of his paintings more than the photos -
doomed



agree. this reminds me about how some native americans wont let you photograph them since they beleive the photo steals their soul. they dont own themselves any more the photographer(photo) does.


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