Expecting Rain

My apologies if this duplicates a previous thread or poll.

I voted for The Times..., DESPITE:

- Freewheelin' getting more historical recognition, critical acclaim, and mainstream attention

- "Hard Rain", "Don't Think Twice", and probably "Girl From The North Country" being better than any song on The Times

- A clearly inferior vocal performance on The Times. I agree wholeheartedly with Paul Williams that the performance aspect of Dylan's art is critical to fans' loving his work (not just lyrics, political content, etc). Freewheelin' has multiple definitive vocal performances of several epic songs (such as the ones I listed above), whereas his vocals sound duller and less inspired (or perhaps more depressed) on The Times. Several of the same songs at the Carnegie Hall '63 concert sound like a breath of fresh air live.

- The "topical song" lyrical content all over The Times, which suffers from being more dated than most Dylan albums and from sometimes being factually incorrect or at least misleading (I was also gonna add the problem of naive, simplistic, leftist thinking, but on further reflection that's not really too much of a problem on this album)

- The overall musical dynamics of The Times coming off as a bit dull.

The last two points also reflect why I actually prefer it better as an album -- the musical cohesion (and the general unity in thematic concept, love songs aside) allow the album to sustain repeated listens. [The same reason that some Leonard Cohen albums can be dull but captivating, and the same reason I sometimes prefer the Blood On The Tracks test pressing over the official release.] I'm amazed that I rarely read (in mainstream press at least) how uneven The Freewheelin' is. Or at least it is to me. A few of those songs don't even belong on outtake compilations. Johnny Cash and the Beatles praised this album early on, but how did they not get bored by some its songs? The bad songs are definitely worse than the weaker songs on The Times. Also, to its credit, the vocal performance on The Times is fairly congruent with some of the bleak subject matter.

How many fans of Freewheelin' out there regularly listen to it all the way through?

Oh, here's one unassailable feather in The Times' cap. In the Townes Van Zandt documentary, it's this early Dylan album that TVZ says strongly influenced him.

'Freewheelin'' is better by almost every metric I can come up with. It's best songs are better than the best songs on 'Times.' It's worst songs are better than the worst songs on 'Times.' It has Dylan's sense of humor (which is sorely lacking on 'Times'). It's just an overall better album. That's not to say that I dislike 'Times,' but it lacks the variation that makes 'Freewheelin'' so lovely, and it feels like one of the most heavy-handed albums in Dylan's catalog. 'Times' is about as subtle as a sledgehammer. The best songs on there, like "One Too Many Mornings" and "When the Ship Comes In," just accentuate how overbearing the rest of the album is.

They're pretty close, both classics for all time. I give the edge to Freewheelin' because it has more grade-A songs and because it got there first.

Agree that The Times seems more of a piece -- it's shorter, isn't it? Seems a bit easier to take in in one listen. Freewheelin' was a patch-work album in its conception, but it's easily one of the three or four most significant LPs of post-war American music.

I'm all for The Times. I literally have never skipped any of the songs on that album, which I can say I have for the majority of Freewheelin while listening on my iPod. Also, each song on The Times is a classic. I find it funny that it's ranked lower due to it's topicality but I literally cannot stand Masters Of War, it's just so...self-righteous and angry. It reminds me too much of the cooler than cool, down with the establishment folk kids, who were no better than today's hipsters. The song is just too over the top, too dark and too try hard. Times is far better as a cohesive album and regarding the two albums, Freewheelin's parts equal more than the whole, which is not something I think is great in terms of an album.

Then you look at some of the outtakes:

Eternal Circle
Lay Down Your Weary Tune
Moonshiner
Paths of Victory
Percy's Song
Seven Curses
Suze (The Cough Song)

I personally believe the outtakes from this album have some stronger songs than Freewheelin.

Truthfully I tried to come up with a long tracklist of Bobby music for a friend to check out. When I looked at Freewheelin I kept about a 3rd of the songs. When I looked at The Times, I couldn't make any cuts. Not a single one would have sat well with me.

the times they are a changin.
best overall albums, best songs, best tunes.
were not for hard rain, freewheelin wouldn't even be in my personal top 20 dylan albums.

The Times They Are A-Changin', for North Country Blues.

Hard to say. They both have a couple of weak songs.
I voted for "The Times" because I like that album more at the moment.

I'm not by any means a fan of the folk period, though.

In their studio form... probably close to a tie... and neither of which have any real appeal to me.

Given their NET performances... again, a tie. Six songs from each album have found their way into the NET and some incredible performances to boot. And I'll gladly listen to them daily.

I remain over the years partial to "Times". As others have said, each song on this record is solid and they have failed to dim for me over the years. They run a broad gamut of genres and excel at all. As a previous poster notes, I too cannot listen without the 'outtakes' from that time and often find myself marveling at the possible album that might have been had they mostly been included. Any album that has "One Too Many Mornings", "Restless Farewell" and "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" and which left off "Only a Hobo", "Percy's Song" and "Eternal Circle" cannot be ignored.

Freewheelin' got better songs and worser songs; Times is ten good to great ones

You sound like me about 15 years ago when I was first getting into Dylan. I had a few of his albums already, Freewheelin, Another side, Desire, Highway 61 and a few others, all of which I loved..then I picked up The Times one day, took it home, put it on, and thought it was the most boring thing i'd ever heard, thought it was horrible and felt bad about wasting my money on it. I think the only song I liked at the time was "one too many mornings" and maybe the title track. 15 years later, it's one of my favorites, I like or love every song on it..and I barely listen to anything from Freewheelin anymore. For me now, I think Freewheelin has a few great songs and a few shitty one's, and The times is a much more balanced album, and I don't find myself getting sick of the songs when I listen to them a lot in a short period of time, whereas the good one's on FW I do much easier. That's my 2 penny's.

I voted for Freewheelin.' Both are good albums. The Times has some good songs. Freewheelin' has some great songs, better guitar-playing, & is sung in a better voice.

You can take mine, too, and make them four.
My thoughts exactly.

I voted Freewheelin', thought it was a no-brainer but now the more I think about it the more I think I may be wrong.

Ah, I forgot about "Moonshiner"! More emotional power on that track than anything on the actual album, including even "Boots Of Spanish Leather". "Lay Down My Weary Tune" is lyrically gorgeous. "Percy's Tune" sounds nice but it's way too long and the lyrics aren't interesting enough for repeated listens.

Nice to hear people's thoughts -- I thought there was something weird about my wanting to listen to The Times a lot lately, and having that but not Freewheelin' on my iPhone's limited data space. I don't disagree with some of the arguments behind Freewheelin's supporters, though.

Now that I think about it, I can get my "Hard Rain" and "Don't Think Twice" fix on Greatest Hits Vol. 2, which somehow sounds more cohesive to me anyway than Freewheelin'. [Dylan supposedly assembled it himself according to a part of Shelton's first book that I had read a while back.] I'll miss some of the other songs, but otherwise -- adios, Freewheelin'!

i can't decide, i think it should be a tie.

ya, they're both brilliant.
But if I really had to choose, I'd go with Freewheelin' because I love the funny songs.

BUT if you chose Times - it would be closer to a tie !

Freewheelin' has more variety. Different themes, guitar work, vocals... I listen to it more i suppose. though the Times is just so serious...very important work on it.

You cant get around Times. Its a mountain range.

That right there is your basic basement tapes vs. Jwh dilemma, or the BOTT vs. Desire problem, or the choice between Love and theft vs. Modern times....or saved /shot of love. Street legal vs. Planet waves....oh mercy/time out of mind, etc....Impossible choices nearly all!

Yep...i voted for Times. I listen to it all the time and hardly ever put on
Freewheelin.

"Restless Farewell"...."When the Ship Comes In"...."North Country Blues"....all are
wonderful.

I agree with a lot of the criticisms above but both albums have some highlishts, for example Corrina, Corrina and Boots Of Spanish Leather work well for me. I don't mind the tired old voice with those two as long as I mix it with happier songs and don't listen to the whole album of either one.

I find it interesting that (for me) the debut album was not so good back then but good now. And these two albums that followed the debut album were good back then but not so good now.

The Times I prefer by a little, not a heck of a lot more...... MEZ

Times would have used to be my fave of the two, now Freewheelin' has the edge. May change back again someday.