Expecting Rain

you said you wanted smarter people to weigh in, bob i assumed would quality. thats what i read unless its a code of some kind.

the thread is MT Heres what wrong. like its a done deal, dont read too subjective to me.

Really? Well, aside from, perhaps, Benny Boy who has proclaimed himself the universal judge of all things Dylan ( ), I am pretty sure most people around here know that we're expressing opinions when we're not debating matters of historical fact. An aesthetic assessment of an album (or any creative work) must necessarily be perspectival.

First post ends with "A theory, anyway."

What I was hoping for, and mostly got, were different points of view about my assessment. I was argued against. I was sometimes agreed with on this or that point.

There's lots of other stuff in the thread too that has nothing to do with my first post. I especially appreciate the funny stuff.

Your contribution so far is what? That we ought not to talk about MT (or I assume any other album or creative work) in any way other than to "Like it!" or to silently go away. That's absurd.

And, fundamentalist.

This is one of the most bizarre threads I have ever read !

You know what it reminds me of? The glory days of Long Johnny. Though he would have set me and everything else on fire by now.

YES i MISS THE CRUSTY OLD BUGGER. Can he be brought back ?

I think it is interesting in a way that there is a forum like this. On the other hand I feel that artists of all kinds my have a personal freedom to create the way they feel they need to express themselves. I do not know any other artist that can express somany different feelings as Bob. If his work has to be analyzed into shreds how could he possibly continue create....Imeanif he let it bother him? If I was him I couldn't read these negative critics that t ries to tell Bob how everything should be? They are not even artisits? Did Bennyboy ever write a song worth listening to? I think an artist must have a lot of faith in himself or herself to go her or his own way. That is a must for creativity. That is a must for interesting art to be born that touches us. Nobody else but the artist himself or herself can decide what the product should look like or sound in the end. And if you don't like it nobody forces you to listen.

I wish. He has a blog that I bookmarked a couple of years back when he still posted here. I checked it after I posted that last reply. He is still online. I could use a Long Johnny screed right about now.
http://thesethingstoo.blogspot.com/

Yes, Ok. But It's not as simple as that. Thinking critically (not just negatively, but analytically) about some creative work is not a dismissal of it. It's an engagement with it. Art, at its best, makes us reassess...well...everything. Dylan's work certainly can do that for me. But, that reassessing involves-- assessing. Going through our experiences and ideas, measuring them up against the art work, measuring the art work against our experiences. In Dylan's case, he often provides the canon against which art (songs) are measured. To be reduced to either liking it or being silent is to have hardly had an experience with art at all.

dont know him. i got a couple of tricks up my sleeve, tho. ive been around.

This isn't about people failing to accept he'd moved on. It's fine that it doesn't have the same qualities as one of his previous albums but it therefore needs to offer something of its own to make it the classic that it's been proclaimed as. It's great if some people can get that, but unfortunately for me it mainly plods along for too long time and doesn't deliver much in the way of excitement.

That's hardly the same as the folk fans not getting why he went electric.

It is still very subjective analyzing of the art which makes it maybe interesting to that individual. I for my part experience art in a different way. I do not think it has to be analyzed to be interesting? I do not quite understand that part? I mean reading some posts takes me very far away from the original song or lyric. It is as if I all of a sudden is on the other side of the world and I do not recognize anything no more. It is all so distorted?

whenever there is a bob sucks post there no problem its when theres a pro bob post that all hell seems to break loose. well its so and so and hes an expert. really? but you who are you a fundamentalist.

well i may surprise someone, maybe bunt a run home. anyways i dont care about that expert stuff.
they post that bob album MT is a turd and you would think they are selling green cotton candy.

this thread's getting out of hand. what do y'all think of knocked out loaded?

you hit the mark. ' analysis etc' is obviously an euphamism for tearing somthing up.

you have to on this forum but 5 min to figure that one out.

Well, I think Bob is smarter than us about his own music.

I think we have to look at Bob’s life as a continuum. He may have made (in our view) some duff moves that we scratch our heads over, but he’s the Artist, that’s his right. It may have been “crazy” to leave Blind Willie McTell off Infidels, but it was Bob’s call. How cool is it that lots of these tracks get released anyway, so that the idea of Bob withholding some incredible, jaw-dropping master works becomes part of his “legend”, heh heh.

well we dont really know what bobs songs are about or what he is trying to convey, i never knew mississipi was about the US constitution until he said so. now, i would assume that if bob says that mississipi is about the constitution. that we cant discount any other so called expert about whats in bobs head,'
i would venture to guess that bob doesnt think of his songs as good or bad but whether they are successfull in becoming what they are supposed to be.

i can see why he didnt release willie mctell, hes right when he said he didnt record it right.

I have worked with theatre myself and when it comes to expressions I can easily say that you need constructive critisism to be able to create on stage.If the director of the play would start to chew you out completely and tear u up as an actress you would not be able to finish your role in the play. The director would have to get some other actress for the part. Artists are usually more sensitive than other people That is why they can create. It is a process that only can happen under the right circcumstances. A positive enviroment is very helpful. You need to feel respected for your craft so you can feel somewhat secure on your feet while trying to create a character.

i think is was a smart choice to leave BWMcT off infidels....Infidels would have ruined it! he should have done it on Good as I been to you though....

The idea that responding to art can never be anything more than 'gee, I like this,' or 'gee, I don't' strikes me as ridiculous. We're not four year olds. MMD is dead right that engaging thoughtfully with art involves trying to articulate what we enjoy and/or don't enjoy about it - why it moves us, or fails to. And of course this can involve some negativity, where warranted.

Young Bill, I like your post below. And I agree that MT is NOT a 'masterpiece' and is overrated in that sense. But - I'm just asking - to what degree are the more intemperate attacks of MT a reaction to its being overrated? Maybe folks would enjoy it a lot more if they just approached it as fun, enjoyable Dylan record rather than as a masterpiece manquée? Are the Bobcats overcompensating for the excessive praise the album received? When I read people slagging a song as entertaining as 'Thunder on the Mountain,' I have to think that's a definite possibility.

it was released on bootleg series, besides what would it matter if he didnt release it. bob could have not released another song after 1965 and he would still be untouchable,.

i think one of the main reasons my posts on this thread seem to have less than a warm welcome is because theyve been mostly written while listening to MT/they probably have too strong a MT vibe.

I have no idea whatsoever why that would matter?

You're walking with MT in your head. Of course it's a strong MT vibe....stop listening to it and start all over goombay. It's an order. Voila.

Nah. And here are my last thoughts for you.
1. I'm still here arguing with you because I think you're being narrow-minded and that just bothered me enough to spend a few minutes . No doubt it's how you engage with politics too. Which is to say, irresponsibly, like a sports fanatic. Support your team at all costs no matter the issue at hand. Not everything (maybe, hardly anything) can be reduced to the small, boring categories you've entrenched yourself in.
2. No one is comparing you to Long Johnny. Seriously.
3. 'Analysis' is not a "euphemism" for "tearing things apart". That's literally what the word means. Except analysis is how we learn about things. I know that doesn't appeal to you, as evidenced by your managing to emerge with your fundamentalism in tact from this "engagement" with other people's ideas.

Alright, that was fun. See you around.

Yes, that makes perfect sense when we are talking about the creative act. But I'm just talking about how an audience experiences art, what it means for everyone who encounters it once the artist releases it to them. I cannot imagine sitting with Dylan (just that, first of all) and telling him what I do and don't like about his songs as he's making them. He'll make what he wants to make (I also imagine that is a problem for Dylan, who feels qualified to tell him a song should go like this or that?...and whether someone like Lanois should or shouldn't is another conversation. To do that is collaboration, though. And Dylan must have thought so, at least a little, to work with him twice). Now, once Dylan is done and gives it to us to listen to, then I can talk about, think about, work through what it means for me, how I like it or don't. And, as evidenced by this forum, we can do that collectively (with some hiccups).

I would never spend my time doing that with the work of a person I didn't think was doing something thought-provoking -- that is, making art. Britney Spears' work means nothing to me, I'm afraid. So, I don't go to Britney fora to discuss her work. Nor do I go there is talk trash about her.

I don't want to only be a consumer of products, only show my "fandom" by voting with my pocket book. That is a severely diminished relationship to things. And, Ontherun, I'm not saying you are making this latter point. That one is for Goombay (so, one last thought, I guess. #4).

Regards.