Expecting Rain

I read somewhere that at some concerts in Bob's Christian years he made some anti-gay statements. This upsets me. Does anyone know if he did say things like that and if he still thinks that way? Thanks!

I hope not.

There are anti-gay statements from that period, indeed. I don't have my Dylan books at hand right now but I remember reading something like that f.e. in on of the interviews in "Dylan on Dylan".

This I took from a booklet called "Saved - The Gospel Speeches", Hanuman Books, Madras & New York, 1990.

As the titel indicates, the booklet contains some, if not all, sermons, Dylan allegedly held during the born again period. Of course I can't tell if the speeches are true at all.


From Hartford, May 8, 1980


" ... Actually, if you wonder why all these things are happening nowadays, Joshua, you know, he went into, I believe it was, uh, Canaan land, and God told him that in certain times He would destroy all the people, every man, woman, children there. Certainly he hated to leave the children, but they was all just defiled. And there was some cities. God said, 'Don't go in there yet', so Joshua wondered why, and God said 'Because their iniquity is not yet full'. So now, you look around today, when started out this tour, we started out in San Francisco, It's a kind of unique town these days. I think it's either one third or two thirds of the population that are homosexuals in San Francisco. I've heard it said. Now, I guess they're are working up to a hundred percent. I don't know. But anyway, it's a growing place for homosexuals, and I read they have homosexual politics, and it's a political party. I don't mean it's going on in somebody's closet, I mean it's politica! All right, you know what I'm talking about? Anyway, i would just think, well, I guess the iniquity's not yet full. And I don't wanna around when it is!"

(I always liked San Francisco, I was there for a party once )

When I remember correctly, the book is edited by Heylin, so I guess it's a reliable source (despite the somehow dubious publisher).

Yes, Heylin is the editor, with thanks to Bob Pook, John Way, Pete Vincent, John Bauldie, Micheal Gray and Wanted man.

This upsets me too , but i believe it could hane happened . I don't mind him being Christian or whatever he wants , but Bob has some quite fucked up lyrics during that period , especially in Slow Train . For example


Sister, let me tell you about a vision I saw.
You were drawing water for your husband, you were suffering under the law.
You were telling him about Buddha, you were telling him about Mohammed in one breath.
You never mentioned one time the Man who came and died a criminal's death.

What's that supposed to mean ? That Jesus is a better god than Buddha and mohamned , that the others are fake gods or something ?

and how about


Can they imagine the darkness that will fall from on high
When men will beg God to kill them and they won't be able to die?


Relax Bobby .


Well don't know which one is worse,
Doing your own thing or just being cool.



Don't wanna marry nobody if they've already been married.






Sometimes i honestly wonder if it was insanity or drugs that caused his behaviour. In 1979 he didn't look so saved to me . What's more , there's poetry in there too . It's not like he lost his talent or something


I got a God-fearing woman,
One I can easily afford.
She can do the Georgia crawl,
She can walk in the spirit of the Lord.




It's just all so mixed up , you know . Makes me think that he wasn't well in those days . He seems better in 1980, 1981 though . And i really love the early nights of the fall 1979 gospel tour . Fantastic performances. He's a strange man , Dylan .



And don't worry tangled , i'm sure he's not that way now . You can never be too sure about a guy like him though, he could be respectably married or run a whorehouse in Buenos Aires .

Well, that's what believing in a judeo-christian God is about - if there's only one god, all other so-called "gods" have to be idols, and their prophets have to be liars, cheaters, fools etc. You could call it a basic lesson in "religious logics" I guess. So I don't find nothing strange in that verse (though it definitely was/is offensive to listeners who do not buy his monotheistich premiss).


now that's a perfect description of this Dylan guy. Great!

If you believe in God of the monotheistic variety, you are likely to believe that your God is the true God and those other ones are false ones. Two alternative truths can't exist at the same time - it's a logical impossibility in this case. I realise the trouble this causes but I am merely stating the case.

If you believe all gods are equal, you are probably either...

a) a true polytheist. That's fine. But this is quite rare (I'm not talking about the gods in a particular pantheon, I'm talking about the different ideas of god in different religions). There aren't many of these people around, not in the true sense of people who actually believe in or worship many gods.

or

b) an atheist or at the very least an agnostic. In other words, all gods have the same value for you, and deserve equality, because none of them have any value in the first place. Hell, yes, they should all be equal - because you don't believe in any of them.

Now I'm not saying anything about which is right or true. That's just the logic of the case, in my opinion.

He did indeed make one statement as quoted by Heylin. Ironically Allen Ginsberg attended some of those concerts! Matbe he was winding him up. He was asked about this in two widely syndicated interviews in 1984... one if I remember correctly was with Kurt Loder.... he sorted of recanted the statement at that time and said people should choose to be whatever they want to be. Some of his publicists also worked hard to distance him from his born-again phase, "it was a message he thought he was getting". Given his influences Dylan ought to know better than to parrot homophobic statements given to him by some evangelical to say. I think he came to this conclusion too. Read Al Koopers comments on Dylans transition back to sanity as the 1981 tour wore on.

PS. Do Right to Me in a post above is mis-quoted. It's "Don't wanna marry nobody, if they are already married". BTW - I'm a gay atheist who loves Slow Train Coming.... !!;-)

"If you believe in God of the monotheistic variety, you are likely to believe that your God is the true God and those other ones are false ones."

I believe there are many mystics of Christian and non-Christian religious traditions that would disagree with you.


"Two alternative truths can't exist at the same time"

Yes they can. It happens with nearly every breath. I believe that is what the whole idea of a paradox is.

Jonnie-I'm not familiar with this Al Kooper interview.
Where can I find it?

Poor Allen Ginsberg. His friends were always dissing his lifestyle. Kerouac made anti-gay statements many times, despite having had his own share of homosexual experiences.

to my knowledge, kerouac was solidly straight; you may be confusing him with neal cassady who did have a thing with ginsberg for awhile

Thanks so much for all the info everyone! I do think that it's possible that he went a little off his rocker at that point, but then again, so do many born agains. I think at that time he was just looking for something that he could believe in that was safe. Then he realized how he was going a little over the edge and dropped out without a word. That's what I see at least. Regardless, I'm sure nowadays he's thinking clearly and he's still the amazing man we love!

Actually, that line says nothing of the sort. If anything, it's a plea for equal time. I think that in this particular verse Bob is driving at the fairly common phenomenon of western spiritual seekers looking everywhere except at the dominant religion of their own civilization, i.e., Christianity. Whatever else we make of Bob's gospel period, that verse seems to make a reasonable point.

i may again be branded a heretic (so what else is new) but i'm really not much interested or concerned with bob's attitudes toward any given religion(s) or god(s). i have a similar level of interest in his opinions concerning groups such as gays. it all really has nothing to do with me or my attitudes and beliefs. immaterial at best.

what does concern me, however, is my own belief system and how i'm going to get through this life. sorry if i pissed on anyone's parade but i just think we're all better off watching the donut instead of the hole.

Sure - but at the same time one can learn something for his own spiritual journey by looking at the journey of others, don't you think? That's why such questions are indeed relevant to me in a way, and I guess others feel the same way. It's not a fanboy thing but a way to gain (positive and negative) inspiration to further elaborate one's own principle views, religious beliefs etc.

1) It would be interesting to hear the views of a mystic who claims to believe in one God and yet who acknowledges other gods. Not doubting you, but it would be interesting. BTW, note my use of "likely to believe" in my sentence above. Would Christian mystics disagree with my claim, which could be rephrased as "many monotheistics tend to believe that their God is the true one".

2) I am talking about absolute truth. Paradox can be theological and apply to God being one and yet also three in one, but tell me if both these things can be true at the same time: 1) there is only ONE God and 2) there are many gods. Or 1) Jesus is the Son of God and died to save mankind and 2) Jesus was a prophet and not the son of God.

i don''t believe that for a moment. my path is uniquely my own. i don't see what's to be learned or gained from another in this respect

Opposite truths can't exist. If you are claiming your above statement to be true, then you are assuming or making a claim that truth exists. Therefore if truth exists it is absolute. If you believed in God and I didn't, both of us would have to be correct if truth is relative and not absolute. God can't exist and not exist at the same time.

Your path is your own. But in order to find your path some inspiration from outside might be helpful, maybe just to fuel your thoughts. But hey, whatever floats your boat ... I just wanted to point out that things might be a little more complex (for some of us or at least for me) than you've suggested.

This reminds me of Cee Lo Green changing the Imagine lyric that goes "nothing to kill or die for / and no religion too" to "nothing to kill or die for / and all religion's true." huh?