Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Fri May 24th, 2013, 10:46 GMT

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 901 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 37  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 10:48 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2008, 04:43 GMT
Posts: 2407
Johanna Parker wrote:
In this very thread, Fred@Dreamtime stated that he was in contact with an executive at Magnum Photos, who implied that the photographers are being paid for the use of their work. Just because it doesn't say so in the catalogue doesn't mean it's not true. There is no copyright issue - Bob's people are too smart for that!
It's just so predictable that the gallery has this history, in light of its willingness to show these works without credit, and their deceptive press release and weasel worded clarification.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 10:58 GMT 
Promethium Member

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 15:22 GMT
Posts: 19838
Location: to over there and back
Is it the gallery's job to check the source of an artist's work? I bet they had no idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 12:21 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2008, 04:43 GMT
Posts: 2407
Johanna Parker wrote:
Is it the gallery's job to check the source of an artist's work? I bet they had no idea.
Well - the fact that they were named as defendants in a costly lawsuit they lost just this year would suggest that they should...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 13:10 GMT 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri December 29th, 2006, 21:42 GMT
Posts: 1164
Location: Merrimack, NH
bobschool wrote:

- that his FOLLOWERS (that would be us here at ERain, our cherished home-scholars Scott Warmuth and Fred Bals batting Wilentz and Marcus out of the ballpark)

EXAMPLE:perhaps a nod to Scott Warmuth's sleuthing out of Bob's Fu Manchu fascination with the added text of The Mask and The Shadow as in "The Mask of Fu Manchu" (1932) and "The Shadow of Fu Manchu" (1948)?
:
http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2010/05/no ... n-and.html
and http://newhavenreview.com/wp-content/up ... armuth.pdf


I think I'm going to cherish the title, "home-scholar," which I like a lot better than the odious term, "Dylanologist." And I'm honored to be paired with my pal, Scott. :D Very nice catch on the "Mask" and "Shadow" references, which given how many times I've pointed out that Grey Water Park is a location in the Fu-Manchu series I should have caught.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 13:28 GMT 

Joined: Sat September 17th, 2011, 02:08 GMT
Posts: 456
I wouldn't be able to catch all of those literary thoughts he sites in his works, but i was thinking about Chaucer in all of this and the Canterbury Tales. One thing i think I read somewhere sometime was that Chaucer's characters were stock characters in literature going way back, and Chaucer did his things with them. That is what storytellers do, and Dylan might be my favorite, but I already sited just a few somewhere else, in the artists section i think - what would i do without them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 13:46 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon December 6th, 2004, 07:22 GMT
Posts: 15018
Location: Scarlet Town
Johanna Parker wrote:
Is it the gallery's job to check the source of an artist's work? I bet they had no idea.


According to a friend of mine...This is a major major art gallery.... um, I think they would


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 13:48 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon December 6th, 2004, 07:22 GMT
Posts: 15018
Location: Scarlet Town
Johanna Parker wrote:
In this very thread, Fred@Dreamtime stated that he was in contact with an executive at Magnum Photos, who implied that the photographers are being paid for the use of their work. Just because it doesn't say so in the catalogue doesn't mean it's not true. There is no copyright issue - Bob's people are too smart for that!

thank goodness..really
that would have made it a thousand times worse


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 14:08 GMT 

Joined: Wed April 13th, 2005, 15:09 GMT
Posts: 3704
Location: a place where the light was dull
If you don't like the way Bob Dylan traces pictures why are you even here?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 14:44 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 22nd, 2011, 11:06 GMT
Posts: 2953
Location: Athens, Greece
Bennyboy wrote:
Guardian article today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/se ... -paintings

So the little x can't even do some paintings without ripping other people off.

They got some of them Bob Dylan paintings on sale in Harrods here in London, you know. Cost a small fortune.

I gotta get me some of this action.


Good artists borrow but great artists steal.
ER is a free community, but anybody who calls Bob a little fuck should be given the death penalty.Anyway, you probably couldn't steal anything from anybody, that's why you decided to play the cop.Sorry to be rude. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 14:51 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2008, 04:43 GMT
Posts: 2407
jman wrote:
If you don't like the way Bob Dylan traces pictures why are you even here?
LOL!
And now from the Please don't shoot the wicked sheriff/messenger dept. - I believe Fred spoke to the guy from Magnum in his capacity as a reporter - which would help explain why ER is getting credited all over the place this morning for breaking the story. But i guess if you cannot bring good news, don't bring any?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 16:35 GMT 
Promethium Member

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 15:22 GMT
Posts: 19838
Location: to over there and back
PS: ER - like a Rolling Stone :D

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... m-20110928


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 17:16 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue June 30th, 2009, 06:06 GMT
Posts: 8846
Location: you try to get away...they drag you back
renaldo45 wrote:
From what we have been able to gather thus far, six of the 18 paintings of the Asia Series were inspired by photos. What about the other dozen?
For the sake of argument, let us presume that all 18 are "copies" of photos. What's more, that neither Dylan nor the gallery has credited the photographers.
From an artistic standpoint, has Dylan committed an unpardonable sin? As has been mentioned previously, many painters paint from photos - either from pictures that they have taken or from photos by others.
Michael Gray - who at first had ridiculed Dylan's Christmas album and then recanted after actually listening to it - is suddenly an art expert and has criticized Dylan's paintings for being exact copies. But are they? Most, if not all of the six photos that have been obsessively scrutinized, are black and white. Dylan has made the artistic decision to use specific and vibrant colors, and brush strokes of a certain texture. Although he is very faithful in his representation of the photos, there are clear differences. And the scale of his paintings are different, too.
Which brings me to the Gagosian gallery. It clearly left the impression that Dylan had actually witnessed the images that he painted, although that strains credulity simply because so much of what is depicted is of a bygone era. But is that Dylan's fault? In his reply to an interview published in the catalog, Dylan does acknowledge that some of his source material are photos. Well, what about the other dozen paintings that might not be sourced from photos?
Before we condemn the man, let us wait for the all the facts.
This reminds me of the trumped-up controversy of Dylan yielding to Chinese censors earlier this year. In fact, Dylan did no such thing. His set lists from his shows in China more or less similar to other concerts he had been performing for months. But the presumption was that he should have spoken out against Chinese human rights abuses (as if there are none in the U.S?) Dylan gave up finger-pointing songs back in the early 1960s, and it is presumptuous of us to expect him to revert to that protest role today.
Similarly, the fixation with so-called uncredited sourcing of paintings reflects an ignorance of art. From Andy Warhol to many artists today, appropriation of images is part of the artistic process. We all inscribe on the palimpsest. Check out Ecclesiastes 1:9. Or better yet: James Joyce's dictum that the role of the artist is to make the same anew.
It is wonderfully inspiring that Dylan is continuing to produce art, and to branch out in different directions. Obviously, he's not doing this to profit. He does it because he doesn't look back.
Positively 4th Street, indeed!


i've only scrolled through a few pages of this, so I apologize if this is a repeat, but has anyone looked into the stories behind the photographs themselves? Perhaps there's a reason dylan's paintings are nodding back to them so clearly and directly. i'm sure he is aware of the difference between painting and painting by numbers. there could be many reasons for mimicry actually - he's a little out of place/time bringing the idea of painterly impressions of the world/painter-journalism to the contemporary art scene. perhaps he's trying to make a statement about what the painting captures versus the photograph.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 17:19 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri February 11th, 2011, 01:21 GMT
Posts: 3920
Well, I was wrong on one count - apparently Bob did NOT spend his time in Japan while he was off from the NET. I just looked at the Opium photograph and then the painting and I was disappointed; not in the painting as a whole. I liked the painting, but I was disappointed that it was so obviously a copy of a photograph. I believe he should have given credit where credit was due. I asked my son who knows next to nothing about Bob and he asked me why I was upset with the painting and I said because it is just like the photo and he said "Well he was telling us that he really liked the photograph." I guess that is one way of looking at it and to cheer me up a little, I am trying to look at it that way. However, I think the painting is beautiful; so is the photograph. Love, Joanna XOXOXXO P.S. Out of the mouth of babes!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 17:21 GMT 

Joined: Sun March 22nd, 2009, 19:31 GMT
Posts: 775
Location: Brussels
My Echo, My Shadow and Me wrote:

Belgian painter Luc Tuymans in particular applies many of the same techniques that Dylan uses. Several of Tuymans' paintings like the works in his "Congo", "Oberammergau" and "Der diagnostische Blick" series could easily be Dylan works.


Klara, the Flemish art radio did an experiment with Luc Tuymans in Antwerp, his home city. Luc Tuymans calls his art AUTHENTIC FORGERIES; I think Dylan might be attracted to that idea don't you think?
Check this youtube out, it might shed some light on what Dylan is (HOPEFULLY) up to.
[url]www.youtube.com/watch?v=96TyAQ7KnVQ[url][/url]

The cynic in me however cannot resist to also post this quote:
Being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art. Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art.
Andy Warhol


It also occurred to me that while I'm posting this, I'm making free publicity for Dylan, Klara, Antwerp and Tuymans. Oh yes and of course also for My echo, My Shadow and Me :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 17:24 GMT 

Joined: Sun March 22nd, 2009, 19:31 GMT
Posts: 775
Location: Brussels
Sorry, that didn't go well, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96TyAQ7KnVQ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 18:01 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 02:22 GMT
Posts: 927
Location: East Coast USA
First, I apologize for not reading all the entries in the 15 pages before mine. If someone has already asked this question, forgive me.

Where do I sign up to get my money back on all the albums, 8-track tapes, cassettes, CDs, videos, and concert tickets spent on this cultural chameleon?

Bob, to live outside the law, you must be honest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 18:10 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri February 11th, 2011, 01:21 GMT
Posts: 3920
Good point Fabe - just a remark crediting the inspiration would be nice. I love Bob a lot, more than almost anybody, and I hate it when he disappoints me and I am NOT disappointed in the paintings, just the source and not really disappointed in that only that they weren't given proper credit. I can't wait to read Chronicles II! It has been suggested that Bob does this to stir up controversy and I actually think that is the best excuse for his actions that I have read. I think this is much worse than the China controversy - I could have cared less about that. Yet he was incensed. Well, we have been trying to figure out the man for years and years and we are no closer to it and we probably never will be until his demise which I hope is years from now. I would be so sad. However, there are all the books that will come out to look forward to! :lol: :lol: Dear Bob, I told you that I wished you would live forever and I meant it. You have always been kind to me. Love, Joanna XOXOX


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 18:20 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri February 11th, 2011, 01:21 GMT
Posts: 3920
I was really hoping that Bob was enjoying his days and nights with geishas and the like and going to opium dens. Where is the old Bob? He would have done that. Maybe the photos made him recall his earlier years. He says on Budokan, I believe (not getting the CD out to check) that he left his heart in Japan. It might not be Budokan, maybe Desire. Oh who cares. Why do I care about not giving the proper credit for a quote made by Bob???? Love, Joanna XOXOXO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 18:44 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri February 11th, 2011, 01:21 GMT
Posts: 3920
I think Bob should do a NET series. He could paint what he sees as he travels. He should have plenty of material and he has plenty of nutty fans (me included) and I will definitely model for him! :lol: :lol: Anyway, he could do a Boston House of Blues with Boston and her gang at the rail, the various Love gas stations he goes to, the strange towns he travels through, Trixie, Milky (you are not crazy and this is not meant as an insult but a compliment Milky!), etc. Totally Bob and totally original. I don't know why it hasn't already been done. I have a theory that Bob does stir up controversy on purpose. He was only mad about China because he didn't start it. Next time Bob, go to the opium den and smoke a little for me too and then come home and paint us all! :lol: :lol: Love, Joanna XOXOOX


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 18:57 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 02:22 GMT
Posts: 927
Location: East Coast USA
The evidence mounts ...


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 19:01 GMT 

Joined: Sun March 22nd, 2009, 19:31 GMT
Posts: 775
Location: Brussels
Fabe wrote:
The evidence mounts ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: your avatar fits in there as well :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 19:02 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri February 11th, 2011, 01:21 GMT
Posts: 3920
:lol: :lol: :lol: That was good! I was just thinking of that picture in a Love's or some big gas station on the road where he was reading the baseball news. Now that would be a great painting! I laughed so hard when I saw that one. Who put that up - Besotted? Besotted is always good at coming up with that kind of stuff. Sorry if I gave credit to the wrong person - not intended - I am not like Bob; oh wait, I did give credit! :lol: :lol: Love, Joanna XOXXO P.S. What thread is that picture on? I would love to see it again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: What is the point Dylan is trying to make...re: his painting
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 19:49 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 19:26 GMT
Posts: 352
I have not gone thru the 16 pages of comments of "the asia series"....but has anyone raised the question that there was no doubt in his mind that the discovery that he copied not just photos, but FAMOUS ONES at that...that this would come out and come out quickly - obviously he learned that...power of internet, if necessary, if sourcing the info...after all it happened with recent albums, more than that, his book,....i see no one but myself mentioning the art of intertextualization when it comes to his writing...but the paintings are different...really exact copies....he is not an idiot...so i wonder knowing the news would come out that he copied....he was trying to make a point....he may be a lot of things but he is no idiot....

I just wonder if anyone has any thoughts if was trying to make a point on contemporary - or traditional - art(s)....the purposes of an artist....

I imagine when i have the time to look thru the hundreds of comments...it will be no more than the simplistic takes on plagarism....does anyone truly believe he had something to say...perhaps sophisticated....cause to think he would not be "found out" is foolish thought/point of all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bob Dylan - The Asia Series
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 19:57 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 19:26 GMT
Posts: 352
so I have a question for you:

If you don't like Bob Dylan what are you doing here!?!?!?!? :?[/quote]

i used to ask that question...but amazingly i find so many negative posts re: dylan here...that answer stumps me...a lot of the people here are not all that skilled in thinking and/or lack tremendous knowledge about the artist/his interiviews...understanding when he is serious as opposed to putting people on...or just understanding when he changes his point of view....bottom line is the same...it is really odd - it is as if it should be called the anti-dyaln site a lot of the time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What is the point Dylan is trying to make...re: his painting
PostPosted: Wed September 28th, 2011, 19:57 GMT 
Promethium Member

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 15:22 GMT
Posts: 19838
Location: to over there and back
Of course he knew it - though for two years noone found out that he copied for the Brazil Series, too.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 901 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 37  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group