New Dylan Album

huck · **Joined:** Wed July 16th, 2008, 12:56 GMT **Posts:** 370

The Grand Finale.

rwasser

hanns wrote:

That´s why I´m a Bob fan. He just does what has to be done. He´s not an errand boy to satisfy the wandering desires of greedy onliners.

Ok, I have to admit that I wrote this post spountaniously when I learnt of Neil's new album and the open handling of it's release (not that I'm not aware of the fact that especially Mr. Young often brought his fans to despair, i.e. with the multiple delaying of his Archives).

Thinking of it I should have rather mentioned the dropwise information (if there is an information at all) of the forthcoming (?) tour (of Europe in this case). Clearly, to those who are living in or near those cities where the assumed concerts will take place it's not of such great importance when the shows will be announced eventually. But is is to, let me say, us for many reasons.

Family holidays will be planned.
Employers will be asked for one or the other leave day (and I know of many employers who are very reluctant to allow those on short notice, sometimes for good reasons) and collegues will be asked, too, if they'd be so nice to do a few days without you.
As it seems to be, trains or even planes have to be booked, which is much more expensive the later you are able to do.
Accommdation, too. I can't see that one will find one single bed for one single night in the greater surroundings of Bayonne par example right now, for it is highest season in July in that part of France.

I don't believe you have to be greedy to complain of these things.

R.

hanns

rwasser wrote:

hanns wrote:

That´s why I´m a Bob fan. He just does what has to be done. He´s not an errand boy to satisfy the wandering desires of greedy onliners.

Ok, I have to admit that I wrote this post spountaniously when I learnt of Neil's new album and the open handling of it's release (not that I'm not aware of the fact that especially Mr. Young often brought his fans to despair, i.e. with the multiple delaying of his Archives).

Thinking of it I should have rather mentioned the dropwise information (if there is an information at all) of the forthcoming (?) tour (of Europe in this case). Clearly, to those who are living in or near those cities where the assumed concerts will take place it's not of such great importance when the shows will be announced eventually. But is is to, let me say, us for many reasons.

Family holidays will be planned.
Employers will be asked for one or the other leave day (and I know of many employers who are very reluctant to allow those on short notice, sometimes for good reasons) and collegues will be asked, too, if they'd be so nice to do a few days without you.
As it seems to be, trains or even planes have to be booked, which is much more expensive the later you are able to do.
Accommdation, too. I can't see that one will find one single bed for one single night in the greater surroundings of Bayonne par example right now, for it is highest season in July in that part of France.

I don't believe you have to be greedy to complain of these things.

R.

I tend to disagree. It´s really not his duty to care about the obsessive. Dylan obviously doesn´t like to plan things way ahead and I don´t see why he should change just to make easier for some folks who are not that spontaneous themself.

devy

hanns wrote:

I tend to disagree. It´s really not his duty to care about the obsessive. Dylan obviously doesn´t like to plan things way ahead and I don´t see why he should change just to make easier for some folks who are not that spontaneous themself.

Let me tell you why. Because that's his job and we are his customers. Plain as day.

raging_glory

I have to disagree. Yes, we are his customers, but we come to him. We don't have to do it. If he doesn't please we can go elsewhere. I don't want an artist catering to my whims. That's when art deteriorates. That's why he is the best, in my opinion. Convenience is overrated.

devy

That's inseprarable part of every business. Sorry, but that's the way it is. This is one of the reasons we haven't heard any news about new album. It's wise marketing strategy & believe me he works with the best ones around.

rwasser

We are not talking artistry here, do we?

Your right, we come to him and we don't have to do that, alright. But what if you want to go to him and cannot for you are not allowed to go because of circumstances regarding your employment. Like I wrote before, I know of many employers who are unwillingly - justified or not - not let someone take a day off on short notice. And if I have to make a living on this very employment, I'd do the hell falling sick once I had asked of a day off. That's simply too risky.

Imaging yourself sitting in your office or standing at the production line or wherever you have to be doing your job porperly and some 1000 kilometers and 2 hours away we are standing at the rails waiting for the lights to go out and a well-known announcement to blast out of the speakers. Not a good feeling, right.

Oh, by the way, it's not a personal thing, I have all the freedom of the world to go where and when I'm feeling to do so. Except, of course, if my wife and I have already booked a holiday trip to a complete different direction. See, even things like this are effected.

raging_glory

rwasser wrote:

We are not talking artistry here, do we?

Yeah, I realize that the original intent was not artistry, but all I am saying that Bob's nature in general doesn't seem to be one that is out to please people and I don't think I want him to change that. The art would still suffer if you start worrying about what people want, even from a business standpoint. Sure, in some sense he is probably pleased when people appreciate his work, but I don't think it determines what he does.

wineman

raging_glory wrote:

rwasser wrote:

We are not talking artistry here, do we?

Yeah, I realize that the original intent was not artistry, but all I am saying that Bob's nature in general doesn't seem to be one that is out to please people and I don't think I want him to change that. The art would still suffer if you start worrying about what people want, even from a business standpoint. Sure, in some sense he is probably pleased when people appreciate his work, but I don't think it determines what he does.

Gotta completely disagree with the sentence highlighted. He fully wants people to appreciate his work, as it's the only way he can sell it. He plays concerts anf records for money. That's his job. And if people don't like it, they don't purchase the product. (It's also human nature to want people to appreciate what you do, especially when it's fully in the public domain.) It doesn't mean he doesn't love performing...as most people who are self employed are doing something they like. But getting paid is a MAJOR factor...so, he has to bring a product to market (be it in live performance or recorded) that X number of consumers want to buy. To think otherwise...would be foolish.

raging_glory

Any artist wants their work appreciated, but his artistic and yes, his business decisions are not, imo, determined by what people want. This is the guy that goes on SNL and sings gospel tunes.

wineman

raging_glory wrote:

Any artist wants their work appreciated, but his artistic and yes, his business decisions are not, imo, determined by what people want. This is the guy that goes on SNL and sings gospel tunes.

When Bob starts donating what he charges for his albums and performances, after costs to charity, I'll agree with what you're saying. In the end, enough of his decisions have to be made by what people want...or you cease to get paid. It doesn't mean he always does what everybody wants, when everybody wants him to. Brad Pitt still charges 20 mil or whatever, to make a movie...and he can only charge that if enough people come to his movies to make it worthwhile for the studio to pay him that amount. Now...because he probably no longer needs the money, he can be more selective in the roles he accepts...and may make a movie every 3 years, instead of 2 per year like his fans may want...but in the end, enough people better appreciate what he does...or they stop paying to go see his movies. Same with Bob. As far as Bob playing his gospel songs on SNL....he did so to promote his gospel record out at the time. Just like an entertainer goes on a talk show to promote their new movie, or whatever.

smoke

It doesn't seem to me that Dylan concert dates are announced any later than is normal in the music industry. Last minute additions (meaning 4-6 weeks beforehand, generally, instead of 8-12) may happen, but they happen with just about anyone.

raging_glory

wineman wrote:

When Bob starts donating what he charges for his albums and performances, after costs to charity, I'll agree with what you're saying.

Christmas In The Heart profits are donated, perpetually. I doubt we know what else he has done and continues to do. He doesn't advertise, thankfully.

wineman wrote:

As far as Bob playing his gospel songs on SNL....he did so to promote his gospel record out at the time. Just like an entertainer goes on a talk show to promote their new movie, or whatever.

Well, that would ignore that fact that he made a gospel record in the first place. I'm sure he made that for the fans.

But anyway, we obviously will continue to disagree on this point. That's okay, too.

wineman

Well...Bob let us know that CITH revenue was donated...because you want to draw attention to the charity.

As for Bob making a gospel record...I didn't imply that Bob doesn't record what he wants, but rather he wants it to sell. He wants it to sell, for it to be productive, for a variety of reasons.

Captain_Arab

hanns wrote:

rwasser wrote:

Dear Bob,

take a look to what degree this thread is going downhill. They don't bother to make lunatic speculations about the songs on your next album and, even worse, about your outfit onstage the next time. Not very nice, is it?

If you don't mind, dear Bob, this time I gonna tell you why that is:

Speculation has it that you have been in the studio and recorded songs for a new album. At least this is what one David Hildalgo said, who claimed he was one of the musicians out there. Let's pretend, his words are true and hope, he will not be punished for the word. This has been some two weeks ago and what else did we hear? Nothing. As if a new album of yours has to be the best hidden secret in the free world. Speaking of the free world, one Mr. Young comes to mind, keep on rockin' in the free world, you know?

About the same time, maybe some days earlier, on Neil's official website some studio noise he was making with Crazy Horse you could listen to. A jam and Cortez the Killer, to be precise. All new, nothing one had not in his or her collection before. Just saying. With this along came an information of a new record by Neil and the Horse. Today (and maybe I was a little late, so I could gain this information earlier) I looked on Neil's website by chance. What did I see? The cover of this record in question. Americana is the title, if you want to know.

More than that, the fansite "Thrasher's wheat" gives detailed information as to the track listing and the date of release. I don't think they took that out of the blue but rather they got reliable information from someone official. What I'm trying to say is: I don't expect you to make a record with Crazy Horse (why not, btw) but if you would be a little more open with your plans of the nearest future, this would help to keep this forum clean from useless threads (which I don't do condemn, for this is just the result of holding back ANY informations from your fans).

Rüdiger

That´s why I´m a Bob fan. He just does what has to be done. He´s not an errand boy to satisfy the wandering desires of greedy onliners.

maybe bob will be open with his plans for the album. i mean we don't know when NY & CH recorded the new album i'd could've been last year. just because we get a clip of them in the studio doesn't mean it's recent. maybe it's too early for the announcement of bobs album, maybe it's not finished, maybe it's not mixed, master, named or mayb the cover artwork is not ready..........jesus who knows......alright alright calm down, stay quite.........bbbrrrrrrzzzzspppp! pop! snap!....slap

raging_glory

One last point and then I will quit ding-donging on this topic.

In the music business, an artistic decision IS a business decision. If you want to sell records, you cater to popular taste. When Bob made the decision to go electric or make a gospel record, I think he knew there was no guarantee an audience would buy it, but he did it anyway. This is the what I am trying, perhaps unsuccessfully to say.

wineman

raging_glory wrote:

One last point and then I will quit ding-donging on this topic.

In the music business, an artistic decision IS a business decision. If you want to sell records, you cater to popular taste. When Bob made the decision to go electric or make a gospel record, I think he knew there was no guarantee an audience would buy it, but he did it anyway. This is the what I am trying, perhaps unsuccessfully to say.

One last point and I will quit......

I think when Bob went electric....he felt he would open himself to an even larger audience. He knew the incredible popularity of electric music... and felt he would broaden his customer base, so to speak. And history shows that he was initially surprised by the thumbs down reaction of his accoustic fans. (Or at least to the degree of the reaction.) And once he started, there was no turning back. To his credit, he stayed the course. But Bob wasn't entering those choppy waters without the belief that rock fans would accept what he does. Obviously, he couldn't be certain, but on a risk to reward ratio, I'm sure it seemed a safe gamble on his part.

Nuff?

Done?

Train-I-Ride

One first point: an artistic decision isn't a business decision. A business decision is a business decision. That doesn't prevent an artistic decision from producing a business result, of course.

wineman

Very true. And it doesn't preclude a business decision from producing an artistic result.

raging_glory

Okay, last word wineman :lol:

Still not in agreement, but I bow out lest we continue going in circles.

wineman

Gotta have that last word, huh? Ok...I'll let ya. Post a last word and I won't come back at ya.

(Any word will do

)

hanns

raging_glory wrote:

Convenience is overrated.

Spot on.

On a randome note (maybe another thread): Some of the fondest memories of my Bobwatching Career are from shows I didin´t have tickets for, leave alone hotel accommodations. There´s Marseille`93 where I crashed on the couch of a big guy who might or might not have been a professional thief. He was a real sweethaeart. I had a hard time to tell him that I wasn´t in the need of money, only in the need of a bed. In the morning he gave me a bearhug and a few hours later, when I reached into my pocket I found 300,- Francs that hadn´t been there before. There was a show in `94 where Federica gave me a ticket. That´s right: SHE gave ME a ticket. In `96 in Tambach I ended up with a lesbian couple that wasn´t that lesbian alltogether. In 2003 I spent a night with a bunch of Scots on the Dreisam River in Freiburg, drinking red wine out of the bottle, smoking strange weeds, discussing cosmology til the morning came around. I pitty (and, sorry, sometimes despise) people with an all-inclusive-attitude. I think they miss the point.

devy

hanns I'm jelly jealous. This is what it's all about (the fun).

Senac

smoke wrote:

It doesn't seem to me that Dylan concert dates are announced any later than is normal in the music industry. Last minute additions (meaning 4-6 weeks beforehand, generally, instead of 8-12) may happen, but they happen with just about anyone.

I read elsewhere that Leonard Cohen 's people have just announced that he'll be touring again in the summer, but no details.
Not that I'm a fan.

Still Go Barefoot · **Joined:** Fri July 15th, 2011, 03:23 GMT **Posts:** 10376

hanns wrote:

raging_glory wrote:

Convenience is overrated.

Spot on.

On a randome note (maybe another thread): Some of the fondest memories of my Bobwatching Career are from shows I didin´t have tickets for, leave alone hotel accommodations. There´s Marseille`93 where I crashed on the couch of a big guy who might or might not have been a professional thief. He was a real sweethaeart. I had a hard time to tell him that I wasn´t in the need of money, only in the need of a bed. In the morning he gave me a bearhug and a few hours later, when I reached into my pocket I found 300,- Francs that hadn´t been there before. There was a show in `94 where Federica gave me a ticket. That´s right: SHE gave ME a ticket. In `96 in Tambach I ended up with a lesbian couple that wasn´t that lesbian alltogether. In 2003 I spent a night with a bunch of Scots on the Dreisam River in Freiburg, drinking red wine out of the bottle, smoking strange weeds, discussing cosmology til the morning came around. I pitty (and, sorry, sometimes despise) people with an all-inclusive-attitude. I think they miss the point.

Yes. Spot on. You get it Hanns-o-matic. I can't remember the last time I bought a ticket in advance. Interesting things happen when you embrace the unknown. And I hate to give away secrets here, but F is a good one to trail. She's usually got a small reserve going.

Expecting Rain

New Dylan Album

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