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 Post subject: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 04:12 GMT 
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Inspired by the Christian Trilogy thread, where a few have said that Shot of Love shouldn't really be considered part of the trilogy, I thought it would be itneresting to ask if there are any actual trilogies in his career?

There has been some debate on this forum as to whether Time Out of Mind, "Love and Theft" and Modern Times are a trilogy, or whether its "LAT", MT and Together Through Life.

Here is a list of the albums - I have grouped albums together that I think work together as a group due to thematic or aesthetic similarities. I would argue perhaps the only actual trilogy might be Empire Burlesque, Knocked Out Loaded and Down In the Groove

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

---

Bob Dylan

The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan/The Times They Are a-Changin'

Another Side of Bob Dylan

Bringing It All Back Home

Highway 61 Revisited / Blonde on Blonde

John Wesley Harding

Nashville Skyline / Self Portrait

New Morning / Planet Waves

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid

Dylan

Blood on the Tracks

The Basement Tapes

Desire

Street-Legal

Slow Train Coming/Saved

Shot of Love / Infidels

Empire Burlesque / Knocked Out Loaded / Down in the Groove

Oh Mercy

Under the Red Sky

Good as I Been to You / World Gone Wrong

Time Out of Mind

Love and Theft / Modern Times

Together Through Life

Christmas in the Heart / The New Album / The Album After That
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 04:49 GMT 

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It's been mentioned by many over the years that 'bringing it all back home', 'highway 61' and 'blonde on blonde' are a kind of 'trilogy' of albums- the first three electric albums, of course, and all having been recorded in a short period (early 65 to early 66) and all sharing somewhat of a similar feel - while of course there is a progression thru the three albums, they have usually been thought of over the years together, when talking about his work as a whole...


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 05:20 GMT 
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Here are some groupings Trev sees :


The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan/The Times They Are a-Changin'/ Another Side of Bob Dylan

Another Side of Bob Dylan/Bringing It All Back Home

Bringing It All Back Home/Highway 61 Revisited / Blonde on Blonde

The Basement Tapes /John Wesley Harding

Nashville Skyline / Self Portrait

New Morning / Planet Waves

Planet Waves/Blood on the Tracks

Blood on the Tracks/Desire/Street-Legal

Slow Train Coming/Saved/Shot of Love

Shot of Love /Infidels

Empire Burlesque / Knocked Out Loaded/Down in the Groove

Oh Mercy/Under the Red Sky

Good as I Been to You / World Gone Wrong

Time Out of Mind/"Love & Theft" / Modern Times/Together Through Life

Another Side/Planet Waves

Bob Dylan/Good as I Been to You / World Gone Wrong

Bringing It All Back Home/ The Basement Tapes / Knocked Out Loaded/ "Love & Theft"


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 05:59 GMT 
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mikesnyc wrote:
It's been mentioned by many over the years that 'bringing it all back home', 'highway 61' and 'blonde on blonde' are a kind of 'trilogy' of albums- the first three electric albums, of course, and all having been recorded in a short period (early 65 to early 66) and all sharing somewhat of a similar feel - while of course there is a progression thru the three albums, they have usually been thought of over the years together, when talking about his work as a whole...



That and the overtly Christian albums (sorry, SOL has enough Christian songs to qualify).

L&T, MT, TTL possibly another, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I don't put much stock in the trilogy concept, I think he has things on his mind other than doing three of something.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 06:54 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 28th, 2008, 23:49 GMT
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It might be helpful to consider what "trilogy" is meant to represent: it is a three-part work that, if not originally conceived as three-part in structure, is made to retroactively work that way.

We will perpetually have difficulty agreeing on whether a particular grouping of Dylan albums is a trilogy or not because Dylan has, so far, not structured works in this way. His strength is in vivid juxtaposition between lines, not on the conceptual big picture. No doubt, then, that he retains clever and striking lines when he encounters them and puts them in "the box" to be later recycled in his songs or Masked and Anonymous or Chronicles. However, Masked and Anonymous illustrates my point, in that there is not a particular brilliance to the narrative of the script that made use of the, at times, brilliant lines. In fact, according to Larry Charles, Dylan was not involved in the plotting, but he handed Charles the lines and character ideas and Charles assembled it into a workable narrative. Similarly, it is not the overall conceit of most of his songs that is brilliant, with some obvious exceptions. Even some of his more noteworthy songs that aim for a big picture (e.g. "Black Diamond Bay") are co-written. This is a generalization, obviously Dylan can pull off a great narrative song with the best of them, being one of the twentieth century's great songwriters, but it is not his most obvious gift.

Given that the strength of his songs is in the lines, it is not surprising that he does not structure whole albums as multiple parts of a conceived, singular work.

In fact, I think a case could be made that just as he has a great gift for the juxtaposition of lines, he has a great gift for the arrangement of songs in the sequencing of his albums. Few people discuss this, but it is often inspired. However, it is obvious that the songs are written separately and then arranged after the fact, with perhaps a few images changed to make the songs of a single album relate more to one another (I am thinking, for example, of the use of "moon" in the Empire Burlesque album). This only strengthens my point, he creates the work (song) and then arranges it to make a satisfying album, perhaps even rerecording it with a lyric change. He does not preconceive his albums as works that relate or build upon their predecessors.

He has obviously written some songs that are "follow ups" or sequels to other songs (e.g. "You're a Big Girl Now" is an obvious sequel to "Just Like a Woman" and "Trying to Get to Heaven" plays with the refrain of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" and there could be some playfulness with "Sad-eyed Lady of the Lowlands" and "Highlands," however oblique, and maybe "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" and "Never Say Good-bye." But, this does not occur between albums...at least to my perception.

There are a few pairings of albums that are recorded so close to one another and share such obviously similar intentions (even recorded in the same studio and with the same producer) that it is natural to group them together and identify common traits: Freewheelin' and The Times They Are-A Changin', Nashville Skyline and Self Portrait, Slow Train Coming and Saved, and World Gone Wrong and Good as I Been to You are the principal ones I can think of. Maybe Empire Burlesque and Knocked out Loaded also.

But, even the so called "trilogy" of Bringing it All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, and Blonde on Blonde does not seem like a trilogy to me. Viewed from the perspective of his 50-year oeuvre, in which the vast majority of the albums have included electric guitar, the shared presence of the electric guitar, bass, and drums on these albums seems even less of a point of unity.

Actually, the songwriting is very different on them. The poster who connected Bringing it All Back Home to Another Side of Bob Dylan, I think, had it more correct. Dylan changed his songwriting dramatically with Highway 61 Revisited and, even though it and BIABH were recorded within six months of each other, to me they represent different points of his songwriting evolution. In BIABH, Dylan is still using flights of fantasy to rebel and soar free of society's conventions, as his lyrics in ASoBD also indicate. However, in Hwy61, he seems fascinated at observing a scene or person from a number of different angles, and each verse seems to represent a different way of viewing the same person or situation: nothing is changing but the viewer's perspective.

On the other hand, BoB exhibits far more concern with inter-personal relationships than Hwy 61, which is more filled with social criticism, even when within the context of a song that is directed at a person (e.g. "Like a Rolling Stone" or "Queen Jane Approximately"). Granted, there is social criticism in BoB ("Leopard-skin Pillbox Hat") and relationship songs in Hwy61, but I think my general observation holds up.

I'll leave it at that. Pardon the length of the post.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 07:28 GMT 

Joined: Thu May 26th, 2011, 12:44 GMT
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So I've had some fun with the idea and it turns out that to date his entire studio career is a ten trilogy series. I think it works (sort of):

Folk Trilogy
The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, The Times They Are A Changin, Another Side of Bob Dylan

Electric Trilogy
Bring It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, Blonde On Blonde

Country Folk Trilogy
John Wesley Harding, Nashville Skyline, Self-Portrait

Family Man Trilogy
New Morning, Greatest Hits Two (the 5 new songs), Planet Waves

Divorce Trilogy
Blood On The Tracks, Desire, Street Legal

Christian Trilogy
Slow Train Coming, Saved, Shot of Love

80s Rock Trilogy
Infidels, Empire Burleseque, Knocked Out Loaded

Dad Rock Trilogy
Down In The Groove, Oh Mercy, Under The Red Sky

Roots Trilogy
Good As I've Been to You, World Gone Wrong, Time Out Of Mind

Self-Produced Trilogy
''Love And Theft'', Modern Times, Together Through Life


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 08:19 GMT 
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I tend to think Blonde on Blonde, Blood on the Tracks and Time out of Mind form a trilogy of sorts, thematically at least.

And The Basement Tapes, Good as I Been to You and World Gone Wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 08:47 GMT 

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Crap Trilogy:
''Love And Theft'' "Modern Times" "Together Through Life"


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 09:01 GMT 
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eddiethecat wrote:
Crap Trilogy:
''Love And Theft'' "Modern Times" "Together Through Life"



:?


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 09:08 GMT 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 14:10 GMT 
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Young Bill wrote:
So I've had some fun with the idea and it turns out that to date his entire studio career is a ten trilogy series. I think it works (sort of):

Folk Trilogy
The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, The Times They Are A Changin, Another Side of Bob Dylan

Electric Trilogy
Bring It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, Blonde On Blonde

Country Folk Trilogy
John Wesley Harding, Nashville Skyline, Self-Portrait

Family Man Trilogy
New Morning, Greatest Hits Two (the 5 new songs), Planet Waves

Divorce Trilogy
Blood On The Tracks, Desire, Street Legal

Christian Trilogy
Slow Train Coming, Saved, Shot of Love

80s Rock Trilogy
Infidels, Empire Burleseque, Knocked Out Loaded

Dad Rock Trilogy
Down In The Groove, Oh Mercy, Under The Red Sky

Roots Trilogy
Good As I've Been to You, World Gone Wrong, Time Out Of Mind

Self-Produced Trilogy
''Love And Theft'', Modern Times, Together Through Life



Excellent groupings, Young Bill! I have to agree with those, although I'm not quite sure about "Dad Rock Trilogy?"


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 14:54 GMT 
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Hits-Rock-Bottom trilogy:
Knocked Out Loaded / Down in the Groove / Dylan & The Dead

But seriously, I wouldn't put too much into the "trilogy theorems". I think Dylan doesn't even think in terms of single albums, let alone thematic trilogy.

Dylan (1985): "An album is not that monumental a thing to me. It's just a collection of songs."


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 15:43 GMT 

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doomedtoloveyou wrote:
Excellent groupings, Young Bill! I have to agree with those, although I'm not quite sure about "Dad Rock Trilogy?"


Funnily enough that was the one I couldn't come up with a name for. Dad Rock is a bit unfair, but it was the best I could think of to sum up that slightly haggard rock star look and style he had going on at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 16:14 GMT 
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Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
I tend to think Blonde on Blonde, Blood on the Tracks and Time out of Mind form a trilogy of sorts, thematically at least.

And The Basement Tapes, Good as I Been to You and World Gone Wrong.


i like that !

self portrait/dylan - new morning - and nashville skyline are closely linked as i see it

john wesley harding is to basement tapes as time out of mind (or love and theft) is to tell tale signs

seventies live trilogy
hard rain - before the flood - budokan


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 16:43 GMT 

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panther wrote:
Hits-Rock-Bottom trilogy:
Knocked Out Loaded / Down in the Groove / Dylan & The Dead

But seriously, I wouldn't put too much into the "trilogy theorems". I think Dylan doesn't even think in terms of single albums, let alone thematic trilogy.

Dylan (1985): "An album is not that monumental a thing to me. It's just a collection of songs."


Yeah, I'd never suggest he's attempted to create a trilogy in any planned way, and my groupings on this thread are more light observations than serious points. I do beleive though that his career has a story to it as his creativity and his life have taken him through phases and for one reason or another these have often lasted about three albums before he moves on again.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 17:01 GMT 
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The only possible triology I see is Slow train coming / Saved / Shot of love. All the rest is forced.

Maybe ther'es more tendency to pairs: Love & theft / Modern times, Knocked out loaded / Down in the groove, Good as I been to You / World gone wrong, Bringing it all back home / Highway 61 revisited...

But basically he always tended to not repeat homself and int these pairs or triologys there's clear differences between the albums.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 17:18 GMT 
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Bringing It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited & Blonde On Blonde

The further, the stun & the holy shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 17:35 GMT 
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Brian Hamilton-Smith wrote:
I tend to think Blonde on Blonde, Blood on the Tracks and Time out of Mind form a trilogy of sorts, thematically at least.

And The Basement Tapes, Good as I Been to You and World Gone Wrong.


Wait!! Now they don't even have to be consecutive?? :roll:

What about the Freewheelin', Harvest, and Desparado trilogy.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Tue May 29th, 2012, 23:05 GMT 
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Just finished reading Steven Heine's book on Bob, Bargainin' for Salvation. The book is about how Bob's oeuvre moves back and forth between two diametrically opposed worldviews. Usually in threes, with a 4th record announcing the shift to the new paradigm. The first of the three in a trilogy introduces the new worldview, the next builds on it and the third takes it to the extreme. Then a 4th album points out the flaws in the point of view and transitions to its opposite. He groups them in in an appendix like this...

Topical protest: Bob Dylan, Freewheelin', The Times. Another Side is the crossroads album.
Social Disillusionment: Bring it All Back Home, Highway 61, Blonde on Bloned. John Wesley Harding announces the pendulum shift
Country/family: Nashville Skyline, Self Portrait, New Morning
Personal Disillusionment: Planet Waves, Blood on the Tracks, Desire and Street Legal announces the change
Gospel: Slow Train, Saved, Shot of Love, and Infidels is the crossroads to
Conversion disillusionment: Empire Burlesque, Knocked Out Loaded, Down in the Groove, Oh Mercy pointsd the way forward to a middle path.
Ahead to the past: Good as I Been, World Gone Wrong, MTV Unplugged (or Supper Club)
Back to the Future: Time Out of Mind, Love and Theft and Modern Times

I thought the book was interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 12:49 GMT 
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Young Bill wrote:
So I've had some fun with the idea and it turns out that to date his entire studio career is a ten trilogy series. I think it works (sort of):

Folk Trilogy
The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, The Times They Are A Changin, Another Side of Bob Dylan

Electric Trilogy
Bring It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, Blonde On Blonde

Country Folk Trilogy
John Wesley Harding, Nashville Skyline, Self-Portrait

Family Man Trilogy
New Morning, Greatest Hits Two (the 5 new songs), Planet Waves

Divorce Trilogy
Blood On The Tracks, Desire, Street Legal

Christian Trilogy
Slow Train Coming, Saved, Shot of Love

80s Rock Trilogy
Infidels, Empire Burleseque, Knocked Out Loaded

Dad Rock Trilogy
Down In The Groove, Oh Mercy, Under The Red Sky

Roots Trilogy
Good As I've Been to You, World Gone Wrong, Time Out Of Mind

Self-Produced Trilogy
''Love And Theft'', Modern Times, Together Through Life

Oh how I am praying you are correct about this because it means we could be in for a...


Christmas/holiday music trilogy!

Woo Hoo!!! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 12:59 GMT 
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mid-'60s noisy stuff

Christian trilogy

GAIBTY / WGW / TOOM


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 13:05 GMT 

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Untrodden Path wrote:
Oh how I am praying you are correct about this because it means we could be in for a...


Christmas/holiday music trilogy!

Woo Hoo!!! 8)


Sadly I haven't included live, bootleg, soundtrack or novelty albums. I've also missed off his first album, but keep that to yourself as no one else seems to have noticed (or more likely no one cares anyway). Yes, I decided his brilliant debut was more of a document of his coffee house shows and that his writing and album career really started with Freewheelin...and also because including it buggered up the whole trilogy thing from the start.

My prediction for the next trilogy is slightly different to yours. I forsee the Titantic Trilogy. Three albums of songs all dedicated to that fateful maiden voyage. So let the good times roll, all the way to the bottom of the sea!


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 13:53 GMT 
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No, such things are strictly the most arcane dylanology


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 14:59 GMT 

Joined: Mon May 10th, 2010, 20:30 GMT
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John B. Stetson wrote:
Just finished reading Steven Heine's book on Bob, Bargainin' for Salvation. The book is about how Bob's oeuvre moves back and forth between two diametrically opposed worldviews. Usually in threes, with a 4th record announcing the shift to the new paradigm. The first of the three in a trilogy introduces the new worldview, the next builds on it and the third takes it to the extreme. Then a 4th album points out the flaws in the point of view and transitions to its opposite. He groups them in in an appendix like this...

Topical protest: Bob Dylan, Freewheelin', The Times. Another Side is the crossroads album.
Social Disillusionment: Bring it All Back Home, Highway 61, Blonde on Bloned. John Wesley Harding announces the pendulum shift
Country/family: Nashville Skyline, Self Portrait, New Morning
Personal Disillusionment: Planet Waves, Blood on the Tracks, Desire and Street Legal announces the change
Gospel: Slow Train, Saved, Shot of Love, and Infidels is the crossroads to
Conversion disillusionment: Empire Burlesque, Knocked Out Loaded, Down in the Groove, Oh Mercy pointsd the way forward to a middle path.
Ahead to the past: Good as I Been, World Gone Wrong, MTV Unplugged (or Supper Club)
Back to the Future: Time Out of Mind, Love and Theft and Modern Times

I thought the book was interesting.


I agree with this. Though I wouldn't include live albums. I think GAIBTY and WGW are just transition albums again. You could just couple them together. I think UTRS suffers the same, except here Dylan leave oh mercy about to transform into something new which was his early 90s sound, though he discarded it for roots which takes us to one of the greatest of his trilogy.

Hopefully the new album will be another trilogy... though what about the transition album we always have?


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any actual "trilogies" in Bob's oeuvre?
PostPosted: Wed May 30th, 2012, 16:43 GMT 
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^
Christmas in the Heart (album of covers)


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