New Terms of Use - Draft

Long Johnny

Dave_DylanCover.com wrote:

Long Johnny wrote:

Not to take attention away from Trotsky or anything but, in light of the "illegal material" rule, the last post by the Dylan Covers Project fella linked to his website where there were downloads of some band's CDs that had Dylan covers.

This is not correct.
I offer no downloads nor host any audio at DylanCover.com. Any links I post are to bands' websites when they offer downloads of their albums / music. When bands post music publically I assume they have complied with any legal requirements.

I assume you're talking about my recent post about the Galician band 7 Lvvas... the links provided there were to 7lvvas.net, not to my site.

I wasn't accusing you of anything untoward, I'm sorry if you thought so. Perhaps a better question would be to ask whether a post that asked "What download sites do you like?" would be a violation? I like numerous music blogs and almost all of them offer downloads of obscure music and I doubt any of it is approved by whoever controls the rights.

Nappy

Ah crap, I can't even post properly anymore. That wasn't meant for you, Gypsydaisy! It was meant for Tupac's post on the first page, but I didn't realise there was a second page. And I was only saying it in jest towards Tupac anyway.

I need a drink.

Nappy

You see what happens when you mess with the place, mods?! Everything falls to pieces! Gah!

Bullfrog

Well, I can see that you're trying to re-establish the groundrules for participation and that's admirable. But I think you've over-prescribed way too many things and too much of it is woefully ill-defined ("Posts must have meaning" ??????). It's a classic knee-jerk response - disorder reigns so let's try to impose order. Nice try, but it won't work.

SquareTotemPole

To live outside the law you must be honest..

onemorecup

Had it been up to me, my first requirement for this site in addition to 'Good manners' would have been 'Sense of humour'. Wit and wisdom in equal measure please! It might be worth taking Dylan's own Theme Time show as an example. He found plenty of room alongside the marvellous music and fascinating information (the obvious 'wikipedia' nature of much of it was humourous in its own right) for songs containing outrageous double entendres. Then there was his own teasing, corny old tongue-in-cheek humour, discussion of sexual matters including reference to himself and lordy lordy, even a comedian telling a 'schlong' joke on one occasion.

Where on earth would we be without a sense of humour, gentle, corny, ironical, satirical, black or whatever style is your cup of tea? Maybe mods should consider banning anyone who doesn't appear to display one after a certain number of posts, say 20 or 30. Perhaps it could even be a requirement to provide a joke of some kind within your first few posts. It could even be in a language other than English and would make a fascinating section of the board in its own right. I'm not suggesting that 'humour' be restricted to some kind of 'off topic' corral, of course. :wink:

stephenoxford

While this is all going on, can we still PM?

isis7475

stephenoxford wrote:

While this is all going on, can we still PM?

i think so. i was able to access my messages.

isis

John McLaughlin

Fascinating work. Meanwhile, I think I'll go Across the Universe. Anyone care to join me over there?

Enjoy your well-earned vacation. It's a pity it comes in the height of the Summer touring and festival season, when people might like to hook up with one antoher, but I spoze we could have a Bob Dylan forum over at Across the Universe, too. Oh well.

Sayonara, and let's all cool our jets - Wee Johnny fae Dalserrf Street in the Barrafield.

PS: I hope the vacationing mods won't mind my listing the url, for those who don't know it or cannot find it:

http://acrosstheuniverse.forumotion.com/

wicked messenger

A) A bad rule is better than no rule at all.

B) There's too much spam in here.
Yesterday I looked ER's first threads and noted how everything was more clear and linear. You had a context in which you could actually THINK.

If you are discussing and interesting matter it is now impossible to concentrate beacause the pages are full of useless images and baroque signatures. It's annoying.

How can posts be meaningful and well-tought if the aesthetic context is a complete mess?
I would abolish images in signatures right away. Avatars are enough.

C) Trolls must be kicked out

The Mighty Monkey Of Mim

wicked messenger wrote:

A) A bad rule is better than no rule at all.

I hope you are being sarcastic...

...but if you are, stop it; it is not allowed.

slewan

Mad Cow wrote:

Copyright
By posting to the ER forums you acknowledge the copyright of all materials in this website – besides external companies logos and trademarks – belongs to ER. Upon posting in the forums you transfer the perdurable and exclusive right for ER to, without compensation, use and edit your forum posts.

Sorry, but I can’t agree on this point. Agreeing would mean to allow the owner(s) of ER to use any kind of information, text, discussion, research etc posted in the ER forums commercially without any reference to the original source, without acknowledging the people who’s work is used etc. All without compensation or any right or possibility to have a say about anything (where and how the content of your postings is used). And if the copyright of a postings belongs exclusively to ER it might even become illegal to quote and/or use postings – even those written by yourself – elsewhere !
If this copyright rule isn’t changed, I will stop posting in ER forums and I believe others will do so, too.
The postings should belong to the ER community and to nobody else!

wicked messenger

The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:

wicked messenger wrote:

A) A bad rule is better than no rule at all.

I hope you are being sarcastic...

...but if you are, stop it; it is not allowed.

We just can't go on with that anarchy. It's bad.

therevelator

MatchStriker wrote:

Copyright law is murky and doesn't translate cohesively across borders. The truth is that in many countries, the U.S. included, anything you write, photograph, paint, etc. that is uniquely your own is automatically copyrighted by virtue of it's creation alone. If you take a photo yourself & post it here, it's already copyrighted. The act of creating a thing and exposing it to the public at large copyrights it. It is immediately your property, no copyright symbol necessary (helpful as a reminder, but not necessary).

If someone copies your photo & uses it somewhere else, and if it's truly that important to you, your copyright isn't worth much from a legal standpoint until or unless you register the photo or essay, etc.

It's when the work is registered that you may then file for damages in a court of law. That said, there are Fair Use laws in place for the purposes of writing a critique of a copyrighted work, and basically it means that you're allowed to quote from, but not reproduce in full, the work in question without written authorization. Still, everyone does it, & as long as no monetary gain is attempted, it's just not an issue for most.

It may be enough to simply leave the wording as stands, along with a disclaimer that no one owning, administering or moderating ER may be held liable for any unlawful acts committed by members. The powers that be know that www actually stands for the wild, wild west, and in most cases are not going to hold ER liable for what it's members do.

see next post.

therevelator

slewan wrote:

Mad Cow wrote:

Copyright
By posting to the ER forums you acknowledge the copyright of all materials in this website – besides external companies logos and trademarks – belongs to ER. Upon posting in the forums you transfer the perdurable and exclusive right for ER to, without compensation, use and edit your forum posts.

Sorry, but I can’t agree on this point. Agreeing would mean to allow the owner(s) of ER to use any kind of information, text, discussion, research etc posted in the ER forums commercially without any reference to the original source, without acknowledging the people who’s work is used etc. All without compensation or any right or possibility to have a say about anything (where and how the content of your postings is used). And if the copyright of a postings belongs exclusively to ER it might even become illegal to quote and/or use postings – even those written by yourself – elsewhere !
If this copyright rule isn’t changed, I will stop posting in ER forums and I believe others will do so, too.
The postings should belong to the ER community and to nobody else!

This rule is confusing and could be explained more succinctly so members understand what's meant by ER acquiring copyright to anything posted in the forums.

In any case, for people who wish to (and have in the past) post serious work here, such as essays, poems and photographs, while it's true that simply by making the work it is copyrighted, that affords you almost no legal protection if it is used/misused by another party. If you wish to protect your copyright on any significant writing or visual work that you plan to post on this or any forum, you might wish to consider registering the work with the government before posting it. In the United States, the simple instructions to copyright your work by mail are available on this site:

http://www.copyright.gov/register/

stewART

Is it really necessary to remove all the forums right now ?
Some such as Rare Recordings have a lot of posts for downloads that have just been posted etc !

Thanks to Karl-Erik for the great site

UnwrappedBedroll · **Joined:** Thu January 15th, 2009, 20:55 GMT **Posts:** 70

I'm fairly new to the ER forum but I must say it is one of the more orderly forums I have participated in. I think Obama seizing control of vast swaths of a once free market economy, in a long disproven belief that benevolent oversight can improve upon relatively minor concerns, has inspired and infected otherwise reasonable minds.

Trust in the crucible of the open exchange of ideas and information and the truth will will emerge.

My only concern is that I keep getting signed out as I surf from page to page. This is the only forum that does that to me.

Broken Wing

I too will miss the community of friends at this site, especially as The down time immediately precedes the opening of the next leg of the tour. A time when it is especially enjoyable to share the mounting anticipation with other people.

I would like to remind everyone that Expecting Rain has been taken as a serious forum for Dylan commentary as "we" have been featured several times in the news lately for scholarly reseach on Mr. Dylan and his endeavours.

I do believe that we all must be reminded now and again about respect for others as the inherent nature of electronic communication can be a bit de-humanizing without benefit of face-to-face communication.

But in general ER is a warm generous place, peopled by interesting individuals with many insights to share based on one person and the body of his work.

I hope that the maintenance cycle is brief and we call all get back to enjoying our shared appreciation of Bob Dylan.

Thanks to everyone who works hard at keeping this site functioning in an orderly but open way.

Broken Wing

ANTAR

A few weeks! Scuse me for petty-minded selfishness but I just bought some premium download-time on my week off to wallow in this years tour material. I'll have to go out and get a life now.

Street Beagle

Or learn to download torrents.

Really, if you have accounts at Dime and HungerCity, the Rare Recordings section is pretty much redundant.

Blonde on Bob

John McLaughlin wrote:

It's a pity it comes in the height of the Summer touring and festival season, when people might like to hook up with one antoher

Yep. This is not a good time to lose contact with our touring buddies.

sealy

I can see why it has happened but some of the new rules are far too stringent. I know it's a tricky task but firmer moderation more quickly applied could have avoided some of the recent and previous difficulties imo.

All the stuff about no sarcasm and correct grammar is just petty. This is not (in case you hadn't noticed) the Oxford (that's Oxford, England) English Dictionary. In any case that's full of smut too.

honky tonk lagoon

I check out this site every day (have only recently started posting). Great pity to see so many new rules ? are they really necessary ? to me it's a great forum, have yet to come across anything derogatory, racist etc.

Maybe the moderators could list the top 3 or 4 problems for them and enforce them as new rules before going ahead with all this ? why do people need signatures as well as a profile ? I agree that duplicating a picture in a previous post is a wate of time and space.

It's a fine balance between having a "live" forum with interesting stuff/opinions where you want to go to a politically correct wasteland.

A rethink please !!

crackerboy

Seems really poor timing--just after an appeal for donations and during the efforts on behalf of “slimtimslide". I've mainly focussed on “Requests for Rare Dylan Recordings" and the “Rare Dylan Recordings" forums since being here. I've helped some and been helped by others. I've seen some exchanges that were ugly and unpleasant from time to time. Controlling human behavior seems historically to be a fools mission. At the end of the day, you all are going to do what you want. I hope it works out for you. This has been a very valuable resource for me and thousands more. I hope it survives.

I've just been cleaning out my saved PM's. There were some very good memories of clear, concise, helpful information exchange there. Some had spelling/punctuation errors -- none violated any copyright. And, none were mean, demeaning or insulting.

Long Johnny

Hey Carl, the answer to the "Guess the Movie" clue was Big Jim McLain (1952) in which Wayne and James Arness (Gunsmoke's Matt Dillon) play HUAC members chasing liberals in Hawaii.

As to the changes.... How about instead of this tedious and contradictory book of rules & regs, you create a Loyalty Oath and require each member to sign it?

You might also try some reverse psychology and put Still Mack in charge of policing spelling, Carnap in charge of policing sarcasm, LittleOndaWhozits in charge of policing Trolls, Over The Hill in charge of making sure people use the damn salad fork for the damn salad, Milk Cow in charge of pap smears, Monica's Dude & Low Gen (it's a big job) in charge of fund raising by selliing CDRs of the rare recordings section on eBay.

And, if there's time, check out these great deals on wow gold!!!

Expecting Rain

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