Venting about taking photos at Bob's concerts

BostonAreaBobFan

Lots of folks want that coffee table book of recent Bob shots NOW. This is the only way I know how to get it. Desparate times call for desparate measures.... :mrgreen:

Hudson Hawk

I've never used flash at a concert as I find flash annoying, but I've been assaulted by (local, not Bob) security at a show. The security were x but were giving people with camera's warnings, they never gave me a warning some huge guy came up behind me and tried dragging me out of my seat, and I didn't allow it. It went quickly from him trying to strong-arm me and saying "You're going to give me that camera" to me nearly breaking his arm as he started begging me to "just let me erase the memory card" as he cried out for more security. Other security guards starting making their way over and after a huge melee that included my Dad (who goes to many shows with me) helping me out, we made our way out of the row and to the side. Ultimately one of Bob's guys came over and told them to basically piss off and that they went about this the wrong way. He took me backstage and politely asked me to delete my stuff, which was nice....basically the bottom line is while they try to force you to give them your camera or stuff, they have no right to it at all. They can make you delete/destroy your tapes or make you leave, but that can't take your equipment...BTW this particular show didn't have the usual "No Camera's or Recording Devices" on the ticket.

richo

Talking to a security guard before The Moore show as he made an announcement to everyone in the area that anyone caught taking photos would have their memory card confiscated. I've seen plenty of bands that have the no cameras policy, but none more strictly enforced than Dylan, so I asked the guy about the policy. He said that Dylan's people send down an order that anyone caught taking photos has their memory card taken and kept for good.

Violating the no camera policy or not, I'm pretty sure that policy is theft and as such illegal. Personally I'd rather just focus on the music anyway and have a hassle-free night and grab a bootleg down the track to give me all the memory cues I need.

Only Dylan show I've ever taken a camera to was Rothbury this year where the band's policy was largely superceded by the festival's. At any rate it was the only show of his I've been to where it made any sense to have a crappy $100 camera anyway given that it was daylight and bright enough to get something vaguely resembling a focused photo, unlike most indoor/theatre shows.

It's funny though that they'll take these actions against individuals grabbing a few pics or whatever, but yet when there's a bootleg (such as that first mindblowing performance of Forgetful Heart this summer) or decent video (like the ones this summer on Youtube that were done in HD with a tripod and looked and sounded pretty decent), they'll gladly promote them on Bob's website.

movin_after_midnight

Anyone know why this link is on bd.com? These must be professional shots?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54812302@N ... 336093809/

Milkcow

Hudson Hawk wrote:

I've never used flash at a concert as I find flash annoying, but I've been assaulted by (local, not Bob) security at a show. The security were x but were giving people with camera's warnings, they never gave me a warning some huge guy came up behind me and tried dragging me out of my seat, and I didn't allow it. It went quickly from him trying to strong-arm me and saying "You're going to give me that camera" to me nearly breaking his arm as he started begging me to "just let me erase the memory card" as he cried out for more security. Other security guards starting making their way over and after a huge melee that included my Dad (who goes to many shows with me) helping me out, we made our way out of the row and to the side. Ultimately one of Bob's guys came over and told them to basically piss off and that they went about this the wrong way. He took me backstage and politely asked me to delete my stuff, which was nice....basically the bottom line is while they try to force you to give them your camera or stuff, they have no right to it at all. They can make you delete/destroy your tapes or make you leave, but that can't take your equipment...BTW this particular show didn't have the usual "No Camera's or Recording Devices" on the ticket.

that's what I said above... they can't take your stuff. If you don't want to delete the pics, they can make you leave. That's it. But the man handling is ridiculous.

Over the hill

music_girl wrote:

Taken from from a fan on bobdylan.com from last nite's Indy show.

I've been to tons of Dylan shows, seen tons of people taking pictures, have tried a few of my own (never really been good though, too far away, blurry, etc). Tried at this place with a point and shoot digital and that was the end of the night for me.

Taken outside into the lobby and pinned on the ground by 'security staff' (three on one). Promptly handcuffed by the IU police and taken to the back room. Intimidated by the police. Memory card (with all three of my blurry pictures on it...) confiscated by some really uptight man who exclaimed, 'this is property of Bob Dylan now!!'. A comical line to say the least.I've got his logo tattooed, so is that copyright infringment too??

Hey Bob. I hope you read this. I paid 70+ bucks for this ticket, drove 150 miles and stayed at a hotel to see you again. Tried to get a picture from a far (for personal looking, NOT re sale) and this is what I get?

How far have you fallen from the once proud standards you stood for? Too famous to let a regular schmo like me take a picture of you without literally getting beaten up, handcuffed and almost arrested?? If you were thirty years younger, you'd write a topical song about this sort of thing. It's as absurd as Bear Mountain Picnic!! I guess your image is too big for life now huh?

I'll say this. I'm done going to your shows. I've followed you for a long time, seen hundreds of shows and it's just gotten worse and worse. I was told I couldn't even smoke a cigarette by your tour bus two hours before the show!

Where have you gone Bob? To the masses? To the capitalism, materialism, and ridiculous rules that are the antithesis of what most of your followers (and maybe you at some point) stand for? What a scene it was Bob. What a scene. Me, all 150lbs being pinned on the floor by three huge security guys in the lobby of the auditorium over three bad pictures I wanted as a souvenir!!! Then handcuffed and interrogated while you played your encore. What a scene!

Much to the cop's disappointment I'm sure, they gave me a breathalyzer and I was legal, so I 'got away' with a warning. Great end to a show Bob. Absolutely fabulous. I know this was not you doing this, but these are the rules you've obviously made and you've got henchmen out there enforcing things that are patentally ridiculous.

If this is where you are with your career, I say give it up. If you believe that it's WRONG for me to take a picture of you for my own memory, give it up. Obviously, something has happened and you are no longer the Robert Zimmerman who left his home and went to NYC in search of something, listened to the Kingston Trio and hung out with Van Ronk. Did you allow pictures of you back then when you were starting out? Ever taken a picture of someone you idolize only to be assaulted, literally, as a result?

What has this come to Mr. Dylan? I hope you enjoy the few blurry pictures I took of you on that 4gb memory card. I hope you read this and remember what a ridiculously unjust thing was done in your name last night. I hope you think about it. I'll keep listening to your stuff, but I won't be attending anymore shows. Not if this is what you expect out of your audience. You sung about henchmen, beggers, vagabonds and the like. what about them now? too famous for them? too big for them?

I never thought I'd see the day when I would write that you, Bob Dylan, let me down. But you did last night. You let me down. I guess I should have just bought another 'officially' licensed picture or shirt or poster at the booth outside in the lobby eh?

Shame on you Bob Dylan. If I were a songwriter, I'd write a song about this to the tune of Bear Mountain, or maybe Talkin' John Birtch Blues.....

Shame

there must be a lot more to the story than what the person posted on BD.com. Most of the time, the rent-a-cops security do little other than shine a flashlight in your face and tell you to put the camera away. If you keep it up, or have a good camera, then they are more likely to get real security. Although security is often unaware of what they can legally do or not, they can ask you to leave. They can't confiscate your equipment. They can't keep your memory card. They can't make you erase it. It's hard to imagine they would have three security guys holding this guy on the ground unless there was some sort of provocation. If this person is taking a breathalyzer test, law enforcement must have been called. I've never seen or heard of anyone being forced to take a breath test at a venue.

feet_of_a_harlot

wow, you can get arrested and handcuffed for taking photos now??????? wow, and again we have fanboys and fangirls defending Bob, the masses are really stupid after all.

feet_of_a_harlot

Over the hill wrote:

music_girl wrote:

Taken from from a fan on bobdylan.com from last nite's Indy show.

I've been to tons of Dylan shows, seen tons of people taking pictures, have tried a few of my own (never really been good though, too far away, blurry, etc). Tried at this place with a point and shoot digital and that was the end of the night for me.

Taken outside into the lobby and pinned on the ground by 'security staff' (three on one). Promptly handcuffed by the IU police and taken to the back room. Intimidated by the police. Memory card (with all three of my blurry pictures on it...) confiscated by some really uptight man who exclaimed, 'this is property of Bob Dylan now!!'. A comical line to say the least.I've got his logo tattooed, so is that copyright infringment too??

Hey Bob. I hope you read this. I paid 70+ bucks for this ticket, drove 150 miles and stayed at a hotel to see you again. Tried to get a picture from a far (for personal looking, NOT re sale) and this is what I get?

How far have you fallen from the once proud standards you stood for? Too famous to let a regular schmo like me take a picture of you without literally getting beaten up, handcuffed and almost arrested?? If you were thirty years younger, you'd write a topical song about this sort of thing. It's as absurd as Bear Mountain Picnic!! I guess your image is too big for life now huh?

I'll say this. I'm done going to your shows. I've followed you for a long time, seen hundreds of shows and it's just gotten worse and worse. I was told I couldn't even smoke a cigarette by your tour bus two hours before the show!

Where have you gone Bob? To the masses? To the capitalism, materialism, and ridiculous rules that are the antithesis of what most of your followers (and maybe you at some point) stand for? What a scene it was Bob. What a scene. Me, all 150lbs being pinned on the floor by three huge security guys in the lobby of the auditorium over three bad pictures I wanted as a souvenir!!! Then handcuffed and interrogated while you played your encore. What a scene!

Much to the cop's disappointment I'm sure, they gave me a breathalyzer and I was legal, so I 'got away' with a warning. Great end to a show Bob. Absolutely fabulous. I know this was not you doing this, but these are the rules you've obviously made and you've got henchmen out there enforcing things that are patentally ridiculous.

If this is where you are with your career, I say give it up. If you believe that it's WRONG for me to take a picture of you for my own memory, give it up. Obviously, something has happened and you are no longer the Robert Zimmerman who left his home and went to NYC in search of something, listened to the Kingston Trio and hung out with Van Ronk. Did you allow pictures of you back then when you were starting out? Ever taken a picture of someone you idolize only to be assaulted, literally, as a result?

What has this come to Mr. Dylan? I hope you enjoy the few blurry pictures I took of you on that 4gb memory card. I hope you read this and remember what a ridiculously unjust thing was done in your name last night. I hope you think about it. I'll keep listening to your stuff, but I won't be attending anymore shows. Not if this is what you expect out of your audience. You sung about henchmen, beggers, vagabonds and the like. what about them now? too famous for them? too big for them?

I never thought I'd see the day when I would write that you, Bob Dylan, let me down. But you did last night. You let me down. I guess I should have just bought another 'officially' licensed picture or shirt or poster at the booth outside in the lobby eh?

Shame on you Bob Dylan. If I were a songwriter, I'd write a song about this to the tune of Bear Mountain, or maybe Talkin' John Birtch Blues.....

Shame

there must be a lot more to the story than what the person posted on BD.com. Most of the time, the rent-a-cops security do little other than shine a flashlight in your face and tell you to put the camera away. If you keep it up, or have a good camera, then they are more likely to get real security. Although security is often unaware of what they can legally do or not, they can ask you to leave. They can't confiscate your equipment. They can't keep your memory card. They can't make you erase it. It's hard to imagine they would have three security guys holding this guy on the ground unless there was some sort of provocation. If this person is taking a breathalyzer test, law enforcement must have been called. I've never seen or heard of anyone being forced to take a breath test at a venue.

We are living in a police state society, get used to it.

feet_of_a_harlot

Queen of Spades wrote:

Camera flashes at concerts are annoying. But I know from experience (not at Bob's shows) that my pictures come out worse when I use the flash anyway.

Anywho, the person should have gotten a warning first. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen the same person get a warning over and over. Clearly the venue took it too far.

How do you know it was the venue?

Over the hill

feet_of_a_harlot wrote:

wow, you can get arrested and handcuffed for taking photos now??????? wow, and again we have fanboys and fangirls defending Bob, the masses are really stupid after all.

NO, you can't get arrested for taking photos unless you are in a restricted area on a military base or something similar. You can't be arrested and cuffed for taking pics at a concert because it's not a crime.

Queen of Spades

feet_of_a_harlot wrote:

How do you know it was the venue?

Bob's people wouldn't have gotten that physical.

BostonAreaBobFan

feet_of_a_harlot wrote:

Queen of Spades wrote:

Camera flashes at concerts are annoying. But I know from experience (not at Bob's shows) that my pictures come out worse when I use the flash anyway.

Anywho, the person should have gotten a warning first. I can't even tell you how many times I've seen the same person get a warning over and over. Clearly the venue took it too far.

How do you know it was the venue?

How do you know it wasn't???

feet_of_a_harlot

How do you know it wasn't???

I don't but no one knows that it was, that is the point.

BostonAreaBobFan

That was my point, too.

bobschool · **Joined:** Fri April 14th, 2006, 19:43 GMT **Posts:** 331

I am very sorry for your outrageous treatment.

Call legal services and send a letter to the police dept, venue management, local newspapers, ok management, nytimes, all media outreach. You are very articulate and need to point out these possible brutality-type tactics, to save the others guys in future concerts and the cop's souls if not for anything else.

Bob taught you that with Hattie Carroll's song.

In Lubbock, everyone laughed at the deaf man who misunderstood the cops in the arena and was kicked and pummeled in full view, mid-show, mid-arena.

As of right now, Hattie Carroll is very upset.

Over the hill

I can't believe anyone is taking this story at face value. Come on people. how many of you have been at a show and were told not to take a photo, or seen it happen? Did anyone end up on the ground, with a number of security over them? Being forced to take a breathalyzer test at a venue? uh huh. why would they even have the equipment there? Let alone force someone to take the test? When you are driving, you can refuse to take the test when the police officer requests it. But a venue can force it, when he's not even outside anywhere near a vehicle? jeez, some folks are downright gullible.

Milkcow

I am a vocal person. Anyone who knows me, knows that. At a show, any show, I don't let people push me around. Once I ran into some trouble at a concert (not Bob). Well, security did grab me by the arm. I looked at him dead in the face and yelled get your hands off of me and don't touch me. You can't do that. He did. If I didn't say anything, he would have tried to pull me by my arm and lose my spot to get a wrist band that I was going to get after my friend came back to hold the spot. They never told anyone to get bands so when you went in and got to the pit, you had to leave to go get a band. I sent Jay while I held the spot. Security wouldn't let me stay so he grabbed me. I don't think so. After the don't touch me thing, he told me if I didn't go get a band I would have to leave because he was getting head of security. I told him to get the head. He did. I explained the plan to head of security and he said it was okay.

I'm little. I'm female. Security is not and has no right touching me at all. If I didn't speak up, they would have pulled me by the arm out of there, and I didn't do anything wrong. They were disorganized and never told people what to do until it was too late.

So I believe security can get out of hand. I've had them get in my face at Bob shows for me to sit. Yeah right... and threaten to toss me... I don't think so...screw. Once you let them touch you, they think they can go further because you didn't stop it. They think you don't know your rights. So if you don't know your rights, they can abuse their power.... and badly.

Gypsygal

Local security guys can be quite disorganized. Most of them are hired just for the show and they do exactly what they are told, and they use to recieve the instructions just a few minutes before the show. Some of them believe they are bullies and take their jobs too seriously. Others do not give a damn and ask you please not to take photos, etc. Most of the time security can get confused if you tell them they can not do something, as they realy do not know how far they can go to do what they are supposed to do. But I really hate when somebody close to me is taking photos, if the security stays in front arguing and pointing us with a torch. It's so annoying. Ok, I love to see photos of the shows, but... :roll:

Over the hill

Milkcow wrote:

I am a vocal person. Anyone who knows me, knows that. At a show, any show, I don't let people push me around. Once I ran into some trouble at a concert (not Bob). Well, security did grab me by the arm. I looked at him dead in the face and yelled get your hands off of me and don't touch me. You can't do that. He did. If I didn't say anything, he would have tried to pull me by my arm and lose my spot to get a wrist band that I was going to get after my friend came back to hold the spot. They never told anyone to get bands so when you went in and got to the pit, you had to leave to go get a band. I sent Jay while I held the spot. Security wouldn't let me stay so he grabbed me. I don't think so. After the don't touch me thing, he told me if I didn't go get a band I would have to leave because he was getting head of security. I told him to get the head. He did. I explained the plan to head of security and he said it was okay.

I'm little. I'm female. Security is not and has no right touching me at all. If I didn't speak up, they would have pulled me by the arm out of there, and I didn't do anything wrong. They were disorganized and never told people what to do until it was too late.

So I believe security can get out of hand. I've had them get in my face at Bob shows for me to sit. Yeah right... and threaten to toss me... I don't think so...screw. Once you let them touch you, they think they can go further because you didn't stop it. They think you don't know your rights. So if you don't know your rights, they can abuse their power.... and badly.

no one is saying security doesn't sometimes get out of hand. but this guy's story doesn't make sense. it's way way way way beyond what happened to you, and in your story, there's logic behind what happened. the details of this guys story just don't make sense. being dragged somewhere, taken down to the ground and cuffed and given a breath test? over some pics with a point and shoot? a whole bunch of cops doing this for no reason other than photography? that would be a first.

Queen of Spades

I don't understand why they'd give a breathalyzer. Especially when all he did was take a couple pictures.

Over the hill

Queen of Spades wrote:

I don't understand why they'd give a breathalyzer. Especially when all he did was take a couple pictures.

why would they even have one INSIDE a venue? makes no sense. Seen an awful lot of really drunk people at venues; never seen a breathalyzer test being used in one.

Gypsygal

music_girl wrote:

Taken outside into the lobby and pinned on the ground by 'security staff' (three on one). Promptly handcuffed by the IU police and taken to the back room. Intimidated by the police. Memory card (with all three of my blurry pictures on it...) confiscated by some really uptight man who exclaimed, 'this is property of Bob Dylan now!!'. A comical line to say the least.I've got his logo tattooed, so is that copyright infringment too??
(...)
I was told I couldn't even smoke a cigarette by your tour bus two hours before the show!
(...)
What a scene it was Bob. What a scene. Me, all 150lbs being pinned on the floor by three huge security guys in the lobby of the auditorium over three bad pictures I wanted as a souvenir!!! Then handcuffed and interrogated while you played your encore. What a scene!
(...)
Much to the cop's disappointment I'm sure, they gave me a breathalyzer and I was legal, so I 'got away' with a warning. Great end to a show Bob.
(...)

I do not know. Maybe he was resisting arrest or had violent behavior. I think nobody put you on the ground and handcuff you if you cooperate...
Anyway, if you stay near the bus and it is in the street nobody can obligate you to go away. They can ask you to do it, but by law they can not do anything else if you says no. Only if it is in a private propety or restricted area they can move you from there.

Over the hill

Gypsygal wrote:

music_girl wrote:

Taken outside into the lobby and pinned on the ground by 'security staff' (three on one). Promptly handcuffed by the IU police and taken to the back room. Intimidated by the police. Memory card (with all three of my blurry pictures on it...) confiscated by some really uptight man who exclaimed, 'this is property of Bob Dylan now!!'. A comical line to say the least.I've got his logo tattooed, so is that copyright infringment too??
(...)
I was told I couldn't even smoke a cigarette by your tour bus two hours before the show!
(...)
What a scene it was Bob. What a scene. Me, all 150lbs being pinned on the floor by three huge security guys in the lobby of the auditorium over three bad pictures I wanted as a souvenir!!! Then handcuffed and interrogated while you played your encore. What a scene!
(...)
Much to the cop's disappointment I'm sure, they gave me a breathalyzer and I was legal, so I 'got away' with a warning. Great end to a show Bob.
(...)

I do not know. Maybe he was resisting arrest or had violent behavior. I think nobody put you on the ground and handcuff you if you cooperate...
Anyway, if you stay near the bus and it is in the street nobody can obligate you to go away. They can ask you to do it, but by law they can not do anything else if you says no. Only if it is in a private propety or restricted area they can move you from there.

yes, like I said in the beginning, there's got to be more to the story. I'm sure he's leaving out the parts of the story that explain why they felt the need to contain his behavior. as for the buses, here at least they're usually parked on the venue's lot, which would be private property.

Lily Rose

Over the hill wrote:

Queen of Spades wrote:

I don't understand why they'd give a breathalyzer. Especially when all he did was take a couple pictures.

why would they even have one INSIDE a venue? makes no sense. Seen an awful lot of really drunk people at venues; never seen a breathalyzer test being used in one.

OTH, that really makes sense... the last thing a venue that is serving alcohol wants is to have anyone say that they had a way of KNOWING how drunk someone was..... saying they had no way to know is their best defense if the person goes out and drives and gets caught.... a breathalyzer seems to be the last thing they would have wanted to do.... It does seem like there is something missing from this story....

Milkcow

as for the bus being on the street and people being near it.. I've seen them tell people to move away LOTS of times...when it is public property. I know people who took a pic of the bus and Bob's security said something to them. So that is not far fetched at all.

As for what happened to me and that person... yes it is a big difference of course. I just think it can go bonkers when you don't know your rights. The kid probably got flippant with them when they took his stuff. Maybe?

Expecting Rain

Venting about taking photos at Bob's concerts

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