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 Post subject: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 00:18 GMT 

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Location: on the scene missing
Dylan tried to write a follow-up to Mr.Tambourine Man, and jettisoned it. He says that's the only time he's attempted a straight sequel. Still -
Certain songs seems to call out to each other. There's a huge amount of interconnectedness on Blood on the Tracks - Tangled Up In Blue has the narrator lying in bed, in the sunshine, daydreaming about standing by the side of the road in the rain ... the effect then is startling when in Idiot Wind the narrator wakes up on the roadside "daydreaming about the way things really are" - it's as if he's jumped songs. Paul Williams points out that the way the album plays out he's back in the rain in You're A Big Girl Now before he's given Shelter from the Storm. Anyway, I'd say by the last track the storm's arrived and he seems soaked - Buckets of Rain.
I think the Marie in Absolutely Sweet Marie, whose gate he couldn't jump - and who left him beating on his trumpet with a fever in his pockets - could well be the same Rose Marie in Goin' To Acapulco who gets him to pump on it some when her well breaks down.
Ring Them Bells has the visionary compassion of Chimes of Freedom and really could be viewed as a direct sequel.
There must be lots of others ...


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 00:39 GMT 
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Santa is mentioned on several different tracks on Christmas In the Heart. And the interconnectedness of the overarching theme to me conveys the ever-present sense that ''Santa loves us all'' ... particularly girls and boys whom are good.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 02:56 GMT 

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I always wondered if Dylan intentionally worked in the phrase "no limit" in Sugar Baby to recall Love Minus Zero/No Limit. The two songs work well together in a two-sides-of-one-coin kind of way.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 02:59 GMT 
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Cool topic! I will think on it some more, because what I immediately thought of was Ballad in Plain D, and then of course O, Sister. I'm too obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 10:14 GMT 

Joined: Wed July 30th, 2008, 02:43 GMT
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Tapestry wrote:
I always wondered if Dylan intentionally worked in the phrase "no limit" in Sugar Baby to recall Love Minus Zero/No Limit. The two songs work well together in a two-sides-of-one-coin kind of way.


That's interesting, because I think Sugar Baby sounds like an update of Idiot Wind - You're an idiot babe - it's a wonder that you still know how to breathe ... Sugar Baby get on down the road you ain't got no brains no how . (I've just noticed that triple negative there puns on "know how".)
Also, as must have been commented on before, throw on the dirt, pile on the dust from It's All Good calls back to the dirt of gossip and the dust of rumor from Restless Farewell.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 10:45 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 14th, 2006, 11:23 GMT
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I think the following two songs, while utterly different in many, are
interesting possible sisters..

Absolutely Sweet Marie

Well, your railroad gate, you know I just can’t jump it
Sometimes it gets so hard, you see
I’m just sitting here beating on my trumpet
With all these promises you left for me
But where are you tonight, sweet Marie?

Well, I waited for you when I was half sick
Yes, I waited for you when you hated me
Well, I waited for you inside of the frozen traffic
When you knew I had some other place to be
Now, where are you tonight, sweet Marie?

Well, anybody can be just like me, obviously
But then, now again, not too many can be like you, fortunately

Well, six white horses that you did promise
Were fin’lly delivered down to the penitentiary
But to live outside the law, you must be honest
I know you always say that you agree
But where are you tonight, sweet Marie?

Well, I don’t know how it happened
But the riverboat captain, he knows my fate
But ev’rybody else, even yourself
They’re just gonna have to wait

Well, I got the fever down in my pockets
The Persian drunkard, he follows me
Yes, I can take him to your house but I can’t unlock it
You see, you forgot to leave me with the key
Oh, where are you tonight, sweet Marie?

Now, I been in jail when all my mail showed
That a man can’t give his address out to bad company
And now I stand here lookin’ at your yellow railroad
In the ruins of your balcony
Wond’ring where you are tonight, sweet Marie

Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)

There’s a long-distance train rolling through the rain,
Tears on the letter I write.
There’s a woman I long to touch and I miss her so much
But she’s drifting like a satellite.
There’s a neon light ablaze in this green smoky haze,
Laughter down on Elizabeth Street
And a lonesome bell tone in that valley of stone
Where she bathed in a stream of pure heat.
Her father would emphasize you got to be more than streetwise
But he practiced what he preached from the heart.
A full-blooded Cherokee, he predicted to me
The time and the place that the trouble would start.

There’s a babe in the arms of a woman in a rage
And a longtime golden-haired stripper onstage
And she winds back the clock and she turns back the page
Of a book that no one can write.
Oh, where are you tonight?

The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure,
To live it you have to explode.
In that last hour of need, we entirely agreed,
Sacrifice was the code of the road.
I left town at dawn, with Marcel and St. John,
Strong men belittled by doubt.
I couldn’t tell her what my private thoughts were
But she had some way of finding them out.
He took dead-center aim but he missed just the same,
She was waiting, putting flowers on the shelf.
She could feel my despair as I climbed up her hair
And discovered her invisible self.

There’s a lion in the road, there’s a demon escaped,
There’s a million dreams gone, there’s a landscape being raped,
As her beauty fades and I watch her undrape,
I won’t but then again, maybe I might.
Oh, if I could just find you tonight.

I fought with my twin, that enemy within,
’Til both of us fell by the way.
Horseplay and disease is killing me by degrees
While the law looks the other way.
Your partners in crime hit me up for nickels and dimes,
The guy you were lovin’ couldn’t stay clean.
It felt outa place, my foot in his face,
But he should-a stayed where his money was green.
I bit into the root of forbidden fruit
With the juice running down my leg.
Then I dealt with your boss, who’d never known about loss
And who always was too proud to beg.
There’s a white diamond gloom on the dark side of this room
And a pathway that leads up to the stars.
If you don’t believe there’s a price for this sweet paradise,
Remind me to show you the scars.

There’s a new day at dawn and I’ve finally arrived.
If I’m there in the morning, baby, you’ll know I’ve survived.
I can’t believe it, I can’t believe I’m alive,
But without you it just doesn’t seem right.
Oh, where are you tonight?


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 11:17 GMT 

Joined: Fri March 6th, 2009, 02:56 GMT
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I dreamed I saw St Augustine --> Blind Willie Mctell?


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 11:41 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 8th, 2007, 20:59 GMT
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Some of the songs on BOTT contain musical and lyrical references to some of his classics from the 60s.

"If You See Her Say Hello" is in some way an update of "Girl From The North Country".

"You're A Big Girl Now" refers both to "Don't Think Twice" ("I once loved a woman, a child I'm told") and "Just Like A Woman" ("...you break just like a little girl"). And the line "...back in the rain" makes me think of "Visions Of Johanna" ("...and the rain, and the visions of Johanna are now all that remain").

"Idiot Wind" is a revenge song like "Positively 4th Street"

"Simple Twist Of Fate" is related to "I Don't Believe You", both are about spending the night with a girl who afterwards acts as if they've never met.

"You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome" may be related to "I Want You" (and that may be the reason that Dylan started to perform "I Want You" during the '76 tour in an arrangement that was somehow similar to the one used for "Make Me Lonesome")

The guitar riff used for the first part of "Tangled Up In Blue" is very similar to the one he played in "I Don't Believe You"


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 11:52 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 7th, 2006, 16:14 GMT
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listen to Tell Tale Signs and you'll find lots more
for example: Dreamin' Of You seems to be a nucleus of several songs
another example: the whole verse "my back to the sun…" migrated from the BS-8-version of Can't Wait to Sugar Baby some four years later

and: MT is a kind of sequel of M&T !


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 14:59 GMT 

Joined: Wed July 30th, 2008, 02:43 GMT
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conal0102 wrote:
I dreamed I saw St Augustine --> Blind Willie Mctell?

Yes : both songs about what it means to be a martyr, and both with especially similar desolate endings, with the narrator finally revealed to be separated from the vision on the other side of the glass -

I put my fingers against the glass and bowed my head and cried
.
I'm gazing out the window of the St.James Hotel.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 17:56 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 7th, 2006, 16:14 GMT
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telltale wrote:
conal0102 wrote:
I dreamed I saw St Augustine --> Blind Willie Mctell?

Yes : both songs about what it means to be a martyr, and both with especially similar desolate endings, with the narrator finally revealed to be separated from the vision on the other side of the glass -

I put my fingers against the glass and bowed my head and cried
.
I'm gazing out the window of the St.James Hotel.


the sister song to St. Augustine is Joe Hill
'I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night / St Augustine' - same/similar melody…


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 19:20 GMT 

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Thanks telltale! Great topic!
I'm not quite so insightful so I will leave the connections to others (unless something hits me over the head) :roll:

Thanks for the brain food! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 19:52 GMT 
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TheTruthIsObscure wrote:
Some of the songs on BOTT contain musical and lyrical references to some of his classics from the 60s.


"You're A Big Girl Now" refers both to "Don't Think Twice" ("I once loved a woman, a child I'm told") and "Just Like A Woman" ("...you break just like a little girl"). And the line "...back in the rain" makes me think of "Visions Of Johanna" ("...and the rain, and the visions of Johanna are now all that remain").



"back in the rain" could also be a another reference to Just Like a Woman "Tonight as I stand inside the rain"

Great thread


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Fri April 23rd, 2010, 22:46 GMT 

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Farewell Angelina is the predecessor to It's All Over Now Baby Blue with its talk about the sky and leaving


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sat April 24th, 2010, 00:44 GMT 
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Here Comes Santa Claus and Must Be Santa apart from the obvious Christmas connection both mention Santa in the title.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sat April 24th, 2010, 05:46 GMT 

Joined: Wed October 3rd, 2007, 02:33 GMT
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For a long time I didn't think much of Love Sick. I set against it very early due to an adverse reaction to (what I construed to be) an overly self-conscious lyrical reference to Mr Tambourine Man:

Quote:
I’m walking through streets that are dead
Walking, walking with you in my head
My feet are so tired, my brain is so wired
And the clouds are weeping


Quote:
Though I know that evenin’s empire has returned into sand
Vanished from my hand
Left me blindly here to stand but still not sleeping
My weariness amazes me, I’m branded on my feet
I have no one to meet
And the ancient empty street’s too dead for dreaming


The way the guitar riff is buried on the album track may have been more of a factor. In any case, I got over it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sun April 25th, 2010, 14:24 GMT 

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I always felt like Highway 61 Revisited and High Water (For Charley Patton) were somehow closely related to one another.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sun April 25th, 2010, 14:41 GMT 
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I always secretely suspected that the Walrus was Paul.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sun April 25th, 2010, 14:42 GMT 

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Sugar Baby = Idiot Wind vol. 2


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sun April 25th, 2010, 16:19 GMT 
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There is a Quinn the Eskimo mentioned in Bob's song The Mighty Quinn. Everybody is waiting for him. And I believe this be the same eskimo that Bob sang about it in The Christmas Song - ''folks dressed up like eskimos'' on the album Bob Dylan's Christmas In the Heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sun April 25th, 2010, 20:48 GMT 

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:roll: We get it MisterJones. :roll:

I've always felt that Things have Changed was a subliminal sequel to Times. Not just in the title but also in the content. Another one off the top of my head is Nettie Moore I almost view this song as a shout-out to his days as a folkie.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Sun April 25th, 2010, 22:27 GMT 
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I'll Be Your Baby Tonight and Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You is one of the best examples I can think of. The former actually sounding like it should have been on Nashville Skyline.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Mon April 26th, 2010, 00:11 GMT 
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Bob Dylan _ the eponymous first album by the man with the same name _ contained a song called Song for Woody. The we had to wait until 1991 to get the sequel ... Last thoughts on Woody Guthrie. This is close to the longest gap between sequel songs in the history of recorded music.


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Mon April 26th, 2010, 03:40 GMT 
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Tombstone Blues, Subterranean Homesick Blues and Dirt Road Blues are all blues!


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 Post subject: Re: Sister songs & Subliminal Sequels
PostPosted: Mon April 26th, 2010, 12:12 GMT 

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Tapestry wrote:
I always wondered if Dylan intentionally worked in the phrase "no limit" in Sugar Baby to recall Love Minus Zero/No Limit. The two songs work well together in a two-sides-of-one-coin kind of way.


That hadn't occurred to me. But you're right.


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