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PostPosted: Wed June 5th, 2019, 16:56 GMT 

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My comments were meant to be general not about specific individuals.

I'm not deluded - I've spent the last 40 years with such folk - hence my comment re people with issues

OK, will do - I've just been swamped by unexpected work, so this is brief, sorry, I was writing about why 76 should stop getting such a bad press:

In the video of YABGN the camera was tight on Dylan’s face and what expressions we get. The look in his eyes when he sings “in somebody’s room” will haunt me for the rest of my days

Going Going Gone was utterly stunning. I’m not sure there’s much available from any year that is better. Those who say 75 was great and 76 poor should watch those two and immediately apologise for their nonsense!


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PostPosted: Wed June 5th, 2019, 17:54 GMT 

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homerthes wrote:
My comments were meant to be general not about specific individuals.

I'm not deluded - I've spent the last 40 years with such folk - hence my comment re people with issues

OK, will do - I've just been swamped by unexpected work, so this is brief, sorry, I was writing about why 76 should stop getting such a bad press:

In the video of YABGN the camera was tight on Dylan’s face and what expressions we get. The look in his eyes when he sings “in somebody’s room” will haunt me for the rest of my days

Going Going Gone was utterly stunning. I’m not sure there’s much available from any year that is better. Those who say 75 was great and 76 poor should watch those two and immediately apologise for their nonsense!


I've never been big on RTR 76, mainly because I tend to compare it to the first leg in 75.

However, I popped Hard Rain on earlier and loved it. I haven't watched it in quite some time, so it was a revelation to me for some reason. It's entirely different to 75, but Dylan is so much more combative. His expressions during the likes of Idiot Wind and Shelter From The Storm :shock: I almost felt like I shouldn't be watching him!

Anyway, I've already told my girlfriend that we're going to Tulsa as soon as it's open to the public and she's on board. I've found a good one :)


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PostPosted: Wed June 5th, 2019, 22:00 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 28th, 2008, 22:49 GMT
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the_hurricane wrote:
Thanks for your very well worded response. My original comment about people online bragging they have Bob stuff that others don't was not intended to be a comment about the people working at the archive it was more a comment about the wider community of fans we have seen on social media over the years (the second post of this thread sums up my feels towards them https://www.expectingrain.com/discussio ... =6&t=96165).

The second point I am very happy with that answer I had pervious understanding that only some of the stuff would be available for "the paying public" and others stuff "for scholars" I have absolutely no qualms with digital copies being available to view for your man on the street and I wholeheartedly agree with it.

I would like to add any reservations I had about the archive have been swept away in one post.


Super cool, thank you the_hurricane for your very thoughtful response.

Speaking for myself, I know I asked a few questions of Michael Chaiken thinking specifically about questions raised in the General Discussions forum here over the years, so I was excited to be able to provide some answers for everyone in my post at the top of page 4.


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PostPosted: Thu June 6th, 2019, 17:39 GMT 

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PJDylanRAF wrote:
homerthes wrote:
My comments were meant to be general not about specific individuals.

I'm not deluded - I've spent the last 40 years with such folk - hence my comment re people with issues

OK, will do - I've just been swamped by unexpected work, so this is brief, sorry, I was writing about why 76 should stop getting such a bad press:

In the video of YABGN the camera was tight on Dylan’s face and what expressions we get. The look in his eyes when he sings “in somebody’s room” will haunt me for the rest of my days

Going Going Gone was utterly stunning. I’m not sure there’s much available from any year that is better. Those who say 75 was great and 76 poor should watch those two and immediately apologise for their nonsense!


I've never been big on RTR 76, mainly because I tend to compare it to the first leg in 75.

However, I popped Hard Rain on earlier and loved it. I haven't watched it in quite some time, so it was a revelation to me for some reason. It's entirely different to 75, but Dylan is so much more combative. His expressions during the likes of Idiot Wind and Shelter From The Storm :shock: I almost felt like I shouldn't be watching him!

Anyway, I've already told my girlfriend that we're going to Tulsa as soon as it's open to the public and she's on board. I've found a good one :)



Exactly - if you drop the comparison then it's a wonder of its own and in its own right.

You certainly have, congrats!


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PostPosted: Sat June 8th, 2019, 17:41 GMT 

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Can anyone who was there share details of the sexism discussion that involved Clinton Heylin?


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PostPosted: Sat June 8th, 2019, 21:24 GMT 

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Assuming the Love Sick is from the Oxnard sessions, is it similar in feel/instrumentation to the first Can't Wait on TTS? It's tantalising to imagine an Oxnard version of TOOM with that piano-led band and those vocals...


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PostPosted: Sat June 8th, 2019, 22:24 GMT 
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Did anyone, who attended the conference, find out if the Bob Dylan Archive in Tulsa holds the Karen Wallace Tape from 1960?

Furthermore, where was the 1958 recording of "Ready Teddy" that was presented at the conference made? Does it come from the John Bucklen tape or from one of the tapes recorded at the garage of the Zimmerman home?


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PostPosted: Sat June 8th, 2019, 23:19 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Did anyone, who attended the conference, find out if the Bob Dylan Archive in Tulsa holds the Karen Wallace Tape from 1960?

Furthermore, where was the 1958 recording of "Ready Teddy" that was presented at the conference made? Does it come from the John Bucklen tape or from one of the tapes recorded at the garage of the Zimmerman home?


In the session I attended Chaiken just said that he recorded it with his highschool friend John Bucklen. And it is the second earliest recording they have, earliest is from 1956 (recorded in a recording booth in a music shop on christmas eve)


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PostPosted: Sun June 9th, 2019, 00:28 GMT 

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likeatrain wrote:
Assuming the Love Sick is from the Oxnard sessions, is it similar in feel/instrumentation to the first Can't Wait on TTS? It's tantalising to imagine an Oxnard version of TOOM with that piano-led band and those vocals...


In my opinion it sounded a whole lot like the album version, just very stripped down to vocals and minimal instruments. After hearing this clip, the toom sessions have moved to the top of the list of my bootleg series wants.


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PostPosted: Sun June 9th, 2019, 08:36 GMT 
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Crayfish wrote:
My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Did anyone, who attended the conference, find out if the Bob Dylan Archive in Tulsa holds the Karen Wallace Tape from 1960?

Furthermore, where was the 1958 recording of "Ready Teddy" that was presented at the conference made? Does it come from the John Bucklen tape or from one of the tapes recorded at the garage of the Zimmerman home?


In the session I attended Chaiken just said that he recorded it with his highschool friend John Bucklen. And it is the second earliest recording they have, earliest is from 1956 (recorded in a recording booth in a music shop on christmas eve)

Thanks, good to know. This means they probably have the complete Bucklen tape.


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PostPosted: Sun June 9th, 2019, 20:51 GMT 
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Thanks, good to know. This means they probably have the complete Bucklen tape.


He said they have excerpts of it and are working on it to get the whole tape.


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 00:56 GMT 
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The latest Definitely Dylan Live is now up, which features a few memories of the Tulsa conference, as well as an exclusive interview with Michael Chaiken, the curator of the Bob Dylan Archive: https://www.definitelydylan.com/listen/2019/6/10/definitely-dylan-live-9-june-2019


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 10:09 GMT 
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Laura wrote:
The latest Definitely Dylan Live is now up, which features a few memories of the Tulsa conference, as well as an exclusive interview with Michael Chaiken, the curator of the Bob Dylan Archive: https://www.definitelydylan.com/listen/2019/6/10/definitely-dylan-live-9-june-2019

Very interesting interview with Michel Chaiken. As a fan of the Ramones I love his description of Bob and band on the 1956 recording they have as "proto-Ramones" in the way they race through the songs because of the time constraints of the acetate they were recording on. Ever since the existence of that acetate first became known (in 2002) I have wanted to hear that recording.

Good to hear that the archive also has the Dylan/Clydie King sessions. Let's hope they will be made available to the public. Trouble No More again demonstrated just how beautiful their voices sounded together. In my opinion the great Clydie King was Dylan's best duet partner.


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 11:56 GMT 
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Laura wrote:
The latest Definitely Dylan Live is now up, which features a few memories of the Tulsa conference, as well as an exclusive interview with Michael Chaiken, the curator of the Bob Dylan Archive: https://www.definitelydylan.com/listen/2019/6/10/definitely-dylan-live-9-june-2019


Thank you very much! Personally, I am especially interested in the "modern Bob" phase. However, in Tulsa we did not really get much information about materials in the archive from the last 20-30 years (we heard the first take of "love sick" and the most current video was "cry a while" from the grammys 2002). And even in the podcast interview Chaiken is rather vague when talking about the most current material in the archive. Therefore, even after attending the conference and listening to the interview I still don't know if there are audio and/or audiovisual recordings (in the archive) that cover the NET period (concerts and studio sessions).


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 12:09 GMT 
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Crayfish wrote:
Laura wrote:
The latest Definitely Dylan Live is now up, which features a few memories of the Tulsa conference, as well as an exclusive interview with Michael Chaiken, the curator of the Bob Dylan Archive: https://www.definitelydylan.com/listen/2019/6/10/definitely-dylan-live-9-june-2019


Thank you very much! Personally, I am especially interested in the "modern Bob" phase. However, in Tulsa we did not really get much information about materials in the archive from the last 20-30 years (we heard the first take of "love sick" and the most current video was "cry a while" from the grammys 2002). And even in the podcast interview Chaiken is rather vague when talking about the most current material in the archive. Therefore, even after attending the conference and listening to the interview I still don't know if there are audio and/or audiovisual recordings (in the archive) that cover the NET period (concerts and studio sessions).

Well, in the Definitely Dylan podcast Chaiken says that the most recent batch of material they have is the Tempest sessions and manuscripts and that Dylan's people keep recent stuff ("from the last four or five years") only for the time being and that eventually everything will be send to the archive. Another attendee of the conference (Hatmatter) said (in this thread) that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone" in the archive. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94973&start=75#p1878988

Another interesting thing Chaiken mentions is that the publicity surrounding the archive has led to the discovery of previously unknown audience tapes that were send to the archive by the (families of) tapers.

Interesting also was the confirmation that Infidels was recorded on early digital technology (I think Infidels was the first rock album to be recorded digitally) that only a specialist company (in California?) was able to read/decode. This casts an interesting spotlight on the problems of archiving stuff in digital formats. Digital formats become outdated so quickly that you already need digital archeologists to access digital recordings from the 1980s.


Last edited by My Echo, My Shadow And Me on Mon June 10th, 2019, 12:19 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 12:14 GMT 

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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Good to hear that the archive also has the Dylan/Clydie King sessions. Let's hope they will be made available to the public. Trouble No More again demonstrated just how beautiful their voices sounded together. In my opinion the great Clydie King was Dylan's best duet partner.


Yeah, fingers crossed


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 12:49 GMT 
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Well, in the Definitely Dylan podcast Chaiken says that the most recent batch of material they have is the Tempest sessions and manuscripts and that Dylan's people keep recent stuff ("from the last four or five years") only for the time being and that eventually everything will be send to the archive. Another attendee of the conference (Hatmatter) said (in this thread) that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone" in the archive. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94973&start=75#p1878988


Thanks for your response. Can you direct me to the part in the podcast where he says they have the Tempest sessions and manuscripts? I must have missed that.
Regarding the NET recordings: based on the post in the other thread I am not sure if Hatmatter assumes they have recordings of the 3000 NET concerts or if he got this information from Chaiken or anyone involved with the archive. It sure would be great if they have all these recordings.


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 13:09 GMT 

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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Interesting also was the confirmation that Infidels was recorded on early digital technology (I think Infidels was the first rock album to be recorded digitally) that only a specialist company (in California?) was able to read/decode.


That honour occurred about 4 years earlier: Ry Cooder's "Bob "Til You Drop" was the first to use this much-heralded process. It's a good LP, but I recall listening to it for the first time and wondering what the fuss was about because it sounded no different to me than "analogue".

I did an interview with Sly & Robbie just after "Infidels", and Sly recounted how he had brought his new Simmons electronic (digital) drum kit to New York, only to be told not to use it. Robbie was recalled how polite Bob was to the session players, always referring to them as "gentlemen", and laughed at how "rundowns" quickly were decided to be "final takes".


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 13:23 GMT 

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Crayfish wrote:
Quote:
Well, in the Definitely Dylan podcast Chaiken says that the most recent batch of material they have is the Tempest sessions and manuscripts and that Dylan's people keep recent stuff ("from the last four or five years") only for the time being and that eventually everything will be send to the archive. Another attendee of the conference (Hatmatter) said (in this thread) that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone" in the archive. https://expectingrain.com/discussions/v ... 5#p1878988


Thanks for your response. Can you direct me to the part in the podcast where he says they have the Tempest sessions and manuscripts? I must have missed that.
Regarding the NET recordings: based on the post in the other thread I am not sure if Hatmatter assumes they have recordings of the 3000 NET concerts or if he got this information from Chaiken or anyone involved with the archive. It sure would be great if they have all these recordings.



They definitely have Tempest mansucripts, Crayfish. I was there, studying (some of) them and Richard Thomas quotes (brilliantly) from them in the afterword to Why Dylan Matters (the kindle edition). third page i looked at (early narrow Way) had a quote from Macbeth that I added to my talk. due to a a day stuck in Chicago airport, I only saw a fraction of what I was supposed to - not enough time just for Tempest, alone. There are lots of manuscripts from it......


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 13:36 GMT 
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Crayfish wrote:
Quote:
Well, in the Definitely Dylan podcast Chaiken says that the most recent batch of material they have is the Tempest sessions and manuscripts and that Dylan's people keep recent stuff ("from the last four or five years") only for the time being and that eventually everything will be send to the archive. Another attendee of the conference (Hatmatter) said (in this thread) that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone" in the archive. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94973&start=75#p1878988


Thanks for your response. Can you direct me to the part in the podcast where he says they have the Tempest sessions and manuscripts?


Starting at 49:25.


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 13:49 GMT 
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Crayfish wrote:
Quote:
Well, in the Definitely Dylan podcast Chaiken says that the most recent batch of material they have is the Tempest sessions and manuscripts and that Dylan's people keep recent stuff ("from the last four or five years") only for the time being and that eventually everything will be send to the archive. Another attendee of the conference (Hatmatter) said (in this thread) that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone" in the archive. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=94973&start=75#p1878988


Thanks for your response. Can you direct me to the part in the podcast where he says they have the Tempest sessions and manuscripts? I must have missed that.
Regarding the NET recordings: based on the post in the other thread I am not sure if Hatmatter assumes they have recordings of the 3000 NET concerts or if he got this information from Chaiken or anyone involved with the archive. It sure would be great if they have all these recordings.

From rollingstone.com, June 27, 2017, https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... es-199434/

The archive will also house digital copies of the raw session tapes from every one of Dylan’s studio albums, though the master tapes will remain safely tucked away at the atomic-bomb–proof Iron Mountain storage facility in upstate New York. Visitors will also be able to access audio from all of his recorded concerts during the past five decades. Many of them were taped by the Dylan camp – including every show on the Never Ending Tour – but the archive has also turned to fans for audience recordings to fill in the gaps.


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 14:20 GMT 
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Thank you homerthes and My Echo, My Shadow and Me for the additional Information! :D


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 14:50 GMT 

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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
The archive will also house digital copies of the raw session tapes from every one of Dylan’s studio albums, though the master tapes will remain safely tucked away at the atomic-bomb–proof Iron Mountain storage facility in upstate New York. Visitors will also be able to access audio from all of his recorded concerts during the past five decades. Many of them were taped by the Dylan camp – including every show on the Never Ending Tour – but the archive has also turned to fans for audience recordings to fill in the gaps.


EVERY show sounds too good to be true. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that many excellent "fan recorded" audience tapes were re-purposed for B-sides, and also much of the Real Audio content that used to be a feature on Bob's site. Why would they use fan-recorded content if they had their own recording?
I do hope that this claim is true, and that some of these start seeing the light of day.


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PostPosted: Mon June 10th, 2019, 15:05 GMT 
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finbar wrote:
My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
The archive will also house digital copies of the raw session tapes from every one of Dylan’s studio albums, though the master tapes will remain safely tucked away at the atomic-bomb–proof Iron Mountain storage facility in upstate New York. Visitors will also be able to access audio from all of his recorded concerts during the past five decades. Many of them were taped by the Dylan camp – including every show on the Never Ending Tour – but the archive has also turned to fans for audience recordings to fill in the gaps.


EVERY show sounds too good to be true. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that many excellent "fan recorded" audience tapes were re-purposed for B-sides, and also much of the Real Audio content that used to be a feature on Bob's site. Why would they use fan-recorded content if they had their own recording?
I do hope that this claim is true, and that some of these start seeing the light of day.

Dylan's consigliere told Rolling Stone magazine (September 25, 2017) that in some cases the audience tapes sound better than the soundboard tapes ("Dylan's road crew has been recording shows dating back to the beginning of the Never Ending Tour, but the quality of them up until the mid-2000's is less than stellar").


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PostPosted: Tue June 11th, 2019, 02:24 GMT 

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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
Another attendee of the conference (Hatmatter) said (in this thread) that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone" in the archive. https://expectingrain.com/discussions/v ... 5#p1878988

Hi Echo,
I should probably clarify. There were many people in line to speak with Chaiken so I wanted to be specific with my questions, but I couldn't take up too much time with him. My conversation with him about the recordings of the Never Ending Tour shows confirmed that they were recorded. I specifically recall him saying that the digitization process will take a while and that many of the recordings are on outdated formats (he specifically mentioned DAT). When I wrote that "there are over 3000 recorded shows of the Never Ending tour alone," I just meant that it appears all or most of the shows have been recorded and that there have been 3000 shows. I did not ask Chaiken how many shows they have. Thankfully, Laura Tenschert in the recent Definitely Dylan broadcast has a great interview with Chaiken, in which she wisely asked about the most recent recordings. As someone mentioned here, he said that they do not yet have the last four or so years worth of shows, but they expect to eventually receive them.


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